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Why do you think people are poor?

harpers.org

111–120 of 292 posts

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social Darwinism, really? I thought that went out of style with eugenics.

Eugenics didn't go out of style. It's used quite successfully to prevent horrible genetic diseases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dor_Yeshorim

It's ironic that it's the Jews who embraced using eugenics on themselves!

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#112
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A year after graduation, ten of the first sixteen Clemente Course graduates were attending four-year colleges or going to nursing school; four of them had received full scholarships to Bard College. The other graduates were attending community college or working full-time. Except for one: she had been fired from her job in a fast-food restaurant for trying to start a union. It sounds like it was successful to me.

So the solution is to make everyone a nurse or an engineer or a manager? Who's going to sweep the streets and grow food?

What? The solution proposed by the article is to make quality education available.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#113

She's completely correct that it's the culture of the rich which make them rich. What she's completely wrong about is that it's their morality that makes it so. We, the rich, the middle and upper classes, are the ones who fund prisons, we are the ones who do not share our food with our neighbors, we are the ones who refuse to mix with them and share our culture. It's like Terrence McKenna said - "Culture is not your…

You should realize you can actually say "socialism" on this site.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#114

In order to accumulate resources, one must use the resources available wisely, consuming just a portion and investing the rest to produce more resources. Individuals and societies that don't do this grow poorer.

But your investment returns are someone else's uninvested consumption. Aggregate demand is like a field of crops, and our society seems to have chosen to eat its seed corn.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#115

She's completely correct that it's the culture of the rich which make them rich. What she's completely wrong about is that it's their morality that makes it so. We, the rich, the middle and upper classes, are the ones who fund prisons, we are the ones who do not share our food with our neighbors, we are the ones who refuse to mix with them and share our culture. It's like Terrence McKenna said - "Culture is not your…

I don't know what the exact unutterable "dangerous" solution you have in mind, but I can assure you, that's not it. The concept of inequality is bred into the human psyche (our hardware or software), you cannot get rid of simplistic social constructs such as communism, etc. Even if technology advances to the level of creating robots to do all menial tasks, our concepts and need for inequality will not go away (for a more pop but stronger version of this idea see Mr. Smith's monolog to Morpheus in The Matrix).

Now, there is a solution that will work and is dangerous: Huxley's eugenics/genetic engineering solution described in Brave New World. And we're fast approaching that solution, I think.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#116
post #11

I remember reading an article at one point about a study done on high school students. I can't remember exact details, but there was a program where students in areas with bad high schools could apply to be sent to better high schools. If I remember correctly, admission to the program wasn't merit based, but first-come, first-serve. The study compared the students who got into the program, and the students who applie…

This is part of Freakonomics ( http://www.amazon.com/Freakonomics-Economist-Explores-Hidden... ). Though you could have obviously seen it elsewhere. In the book, it was referring to lottery based admission to the better schools. The result was that it didn't matter whether the students won the lottery or not. They performed equally well (on whatever generic criteria you use to judge academic performance in hs, most l…

Do we know that virtuous intent is what separates those who apply versus those who don't?

That might just be measuring the stability, resources, and values of the family. I can easily see how a kid with a supportive family can do well, even under challenging circumstances.

But is that fair to the kid who was born into a more chaotic environment?

Or, a family where the parents make a rational choice not to send their kid to this school? Perhaps they can't afford increased activity fees. Or perhaps they worry about their kid being a fish out of water, competing with kids from more privileged backgrounds?

Or, a family where the parents are actively anti-learning -- either through internalized racism or sexism[1], fear of their kids becoming alien to them, or a belief that the rest of society is so racist that education isn't helpful?

[1] A friend of mine from rural Quebec was dissuaded by her mother from getting a college degree, because, quote, "we're not made for great things".

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#117
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least a good school does provide the opportunity, from stories I've heard from people who have worked at or attended bad schools it would be an environment where it would be basically impossible to learn anything even if you wanted to. OK, this is just one anecdote, but... I grew up in a fairly rural, poor part of North Carolina, went to generic, poor to below average public schools, came from a dirt-poor family t…

I'm curious what your parents taught you about personal responsibility. My theory is it's less about whether you grow up in poverty as it is about growing up being taught you're a victim, that everything bad in your life is the result of other people hating you or taking what should be yours, etc. If you feel everything that you have or don't have is the result of things other people are giving you or taking from you…

> However the reality is that almost nobody in the world or evn your town even knows you exist, much less is actively working to keep you down. If you grow up being told that life is (largely) what you make it, you will tend to do what it takes to achieve what you want, rather than remaining mired in self-pity and victimhood.

"The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light."

Stanley Kubrick

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#119
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the solution is to make everyone a nurse or an engineer or a manager? Who's going to sweep the streets and grow food?

What? The solution proposed by the article is to make quality education available.

And the implication of everybody being well educated is that everyone will have white collar jobs or prestigious blue collar jobs. If everyone is well educated then who will want to take a job as a street cleaner when they've just spent $80k on their education? The solution is clearly not limited to just educating everyone, is it?

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#120

She's completely correct that it's the culture of the rich which make them rich. What she's completely wrong about is that it's their morality that makes it so. We, the rich, the middle and upper classes, are the ones who fund prisons, we are the ones who do not share our food with our neighbors, we are the ones who refuse to mix with them and share our culture. It's like Terrence McKenna said - "Culture is not your…

You should realize you can actually say "socialism" on this site.

Bzzzt! Different word. Socialism does not address inequality of power.
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