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Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

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221–230 of 803 posts

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#221
post #218

We don't even understand how the brain functions completely, not even close. Until we have a complete understanding of how our own GI works down to the exact bio-mechanical level, we can't achieve AGI. That's the theoretical basis and path for achieving AGI (if it's even possible). I'm tired of all the "we stick enough data in the magic black box blender and ta-da! AGI!" Every giant technological break-through throug…

> Until we have a complete understanding of how our own GI works down to the exact bio-mechanical level, we can't achieve AGI.

This doesn't make any sense.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#222
post #61
post #13

$1B raise, $5B valuation. For a company that is a couple months old and doesn't have a product or even a single line of code in production. Wild.

This feels like a situation with a sold out train to a popular destination, where people are already reselling their tickets for some crazy markup, and then suddenly railway decides to add one more train car and opens flash ticket sale. Investors feeling missing out on OpenAI and others are now hoping to catch this last train ticket to the AI.

It's a highly risky bet, but not fundamentally unreasonable. One might believe that Ilya's research was genuinely critical to OpenAI's current situation. If one takes that premise, three potential corollaries follow: (1) OpenAI will struggle to produce future research breakthroughs without Ilya; (2) OpenAI will struggle to materially move beyond its current product lineup and variations thereof without said future research breakthroughs; (3) a startup led by Ilya could overcome both (1) and (2) with time.

An alternative sequence of reasoning places less emphasis on Ilya specifically and uses Ilya as an indicator of research health. Repeat (1), (2), and (3) above, but replace "Ilya" with something like "strong and healthy fundamental research group". In this version, Ilya's departure is taken as indication that OpenAI no longer has a strong and healthy fundamental research group but that the company is "compromised" by relentless feature roadmaps for current products and their variations. That does not mean OpenAI will fail, but in this perspective it might mean that OpenAI is not well positioned to capture future research breakthroughs and the products that they will generate.

From my perspective, it's just about impossible to know how true these premises really are. And that's what makes it a bet or gamble rather than anything with any degree of assurance. To me, just as likely is the scenario where it's revealed that Ilya is highly ineffective as a generalist leader and that research without healthy tension from the business goes nowhere.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#223
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except in this case, the train driver from the original train was "sacked" (some believe unfairly), and decided to get their own train to drive. Of course, the smoothness of the ride depends on the driver of the train.

Even with the best train driver, the ride won't be any good of the track is shit and the rolling stock is falling apart.

I think this analogy is starting to go off the rails.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#224

Lots of comments either defending this ("it's taking a chance on being the first to build AGI with a proven team") or saying "it's a crazy valuation for a 3 month old startup". But both of these "sides" feel like they miss the mark to me. On one hand, I think it's great that investors are willing to throw big chunks of money at hard (or at least expensive) problems. I'm pretty sure all the investors putting money in…

> On the other hand, I'm kind of baffled that we're still talking about "AGI" in the context of LLMs.

I'm not. Lots of people and companies have been sinking money into these ventures and they need to keep the hype alive by framing this as being some sort of race to AGI. I am aware that the older I get the more cynical I become, but I bucket all discussions about AGI (including the very popular 'open letters' about AI safety and Skynet) in the context of LLMs into the 'snake oil' bucket.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#225
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like a situation with a sold out train to a popular destination, where people are already reselling their tickets for some crazy markup, and then suddenly railway decides to add one more train car and opens flash ticket sale. Investors feeling missing out on OpenAI and others are now hoping to catch this last train ticket to the AI.

Add that the tracks have not even been built &trains purchased and we are back at google old railway craze/bubble! Do YOU want to miss out being a share holder on this new line that will bring immeasurable wealth ?? ;-)

Imagine being in a position where you can spend $1B on a high risk gamble, unconcerned if you lose it all, all in pursuit of more wealth.

Simultaneously too wealthy to imagine and never wealthy enough. Capitalism is quite the drug.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a very good paper in Nature showing this definitively: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41437933 Modern ANN architectures are not actually capable of long-term learning in the same way animals are, even stodgy old dogs that don't learn new tricks. ANNs are not a plausible model for the brain, even if they emulate certain parts of the brain (the cerebellum, but not the cortex) I will add that transformer…

this paper is far from “showing this definitively” even if we bought this negative result as somehow “proving impossibility”, i’m not convinced plasticity is necessary for intelligence huge respect for richard sutton though

Isn't "plasticity is not necessary for intelligence" just defining intelligence downwards? It seems like you want to restrict "intelligence" to static knowledge and (apparent) short-term cleverness, but being able to make long-term observation and judgements about a changing world is a necessary component of intelligence in vertebrates. Why exclude that from consideration?

More specifically: it is highly implausible that an AI system could learn to improve itself beyond human capability if it does not have long-term plasticity: how would it be able to reflect upon and extend its discoveries if it's not able to learn new things during its operation?

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#227
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the AI bubble is very, very real. Not that LLMs are all hype, they’re certainly impressive with useful applications, but AI companies are getting insane valuations with zero proof that they’re viable businesses.

Everyone is selling shovels but no one is building mines.

In realistic terms, seems only nvda is selling AI shovels

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#228
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the AI bubble is very, very real. Not that LLMs are all hype, they’re certainly impressive with useful applications, but AI companies are getting insane valuations with zero proof that they’re viable businesses.

Everyone is selling shovels but no one is building mines.

Nvidia is selling shovels

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#229
Again I read the comments and can't think of any place less optimistic or understanding of technology than Hackernews. Lot's of armchair critics thinking they know better than the guy who help built AlexNet. I should be surprised but I'm not anymore, just disapointed.

One of the smartest computer science researchers is taking a stab at the most important problem of our lifetimes, we should be cheering him on.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which basic counting tests do they still fail? Recent examples I've seen fall well within the range of innumeracy that people routinely display. I feel like a lot of people are stuck in the mindset of 10 years ago, when transformers weren't even invented yet and state-of-the-art models couldn't identify a bird, no matter how much capabilities advance.

> Recent examples I've seen fall well within the range of innumeracy that people routinely display. Here's GPT-4 Turbo in April botching a test almost all preschoolers could solve easily: https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_pr... I have not used LLMs since 2023, when GPT-4 routinely failed almost every counting problem I could think of. I am sure the performance has improved since then, though "…

Your test does not make any sense whatsoever because all GPT does when it creates an image currently is send a prompt to Dalle-3.

Beyond that LLMs don't see words or letters (tokens are neither) so some counting issues are expected.

But it's not very surprising you've been giving tests that make no sense.

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