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Microsoft's 'Recall' feature can't be uninstalled after all

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Re: Microsoft's 'Recall' feature can't be uninstalled after all

#201

Post by zamadatix »

houseplant wrote: post #56
NavinF wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. In fact I already record my screen and steam it to my NAS for automatic time tracking and OCR search. It'd be nice to have a less a less janky solution. I'm kinda surprised people just throw away their history. I love being able to restore deleted posts as long as I remember a few words of the content

in all kindness, you're such an incredibly niche example of actual usage of this, that only proves it should've been opt-in instead of opt-out. I don't need to know what my tabs were 3 months ago. I don't need to treasure my precious history of browsing amazon for vacuum cleaners.

I'll agree they are an incredibly niche example of actually using this... but only because ways to do this right now are incredibly niche. The rest remains to be seen.

If there hadn't been decades of normality of browsers storing history then people, particularly those in tech circles, would absolutely flip their shit if it were announced as part of Edge. There would be mass revolts on these forums if it would sync with the cloud. It makes measuring how popular a concept would be difficult as what is niche today and what is wildly unpopular with tech folks today may or may not have any relation whatsoever to what will be popular with users in the long term.

Re: Microsoft's 'Recall' feature can't be uninstalled after all

#202

Post by stoobs »

nolist_policy wrote: post #170
hrnnnnnn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I set up a local only Windows 11 machine recently. 1. Install with throwaway Microsoft account 2. Create new local admin account 3. Use local admin account to delete setup account Not ideal, but not difficult either.

Doesn't sound like a supported configuration to me. Wouldn't surprise me if it breaks one day.

That's how enterprise installations of windows work, and has always been a fully supported configuration.

It's just that they've been hiding it more and more for consumer installations in successive releases.

Re: Microsoft's 'Recall' feature can't be uninstalled after all

#204

Post by ezst »

arp242 wrote: post #130
ezst wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish this were a more accessible path for non-tech people. It should be forbidden to ship PCs with Windows preinstalled, unless the user made it a conscious purchase decision (and offered to choose between several options). I suspect fewer and fewer users would be willing to fork hundreds of bucks for something that's objectively terrible (and only getting worse), tech literacy would only improve as a result. But…

When the first Asus Eee laptops came out they had Linux installed. They later also did Windows XP versions. This was the first (and probably only) time you could find Linux machines in most mainstream computer stores. The Linux version was better than XP in every way you can measure: cheaper, faster, easier (more optimized for those 7" screens). And these "netbooks" were just intended for browsing the net, so it does…

> People wanted Windows, because that's what they're used to.

which is exactly what I'm talking about, that's the force that keeps competition inexistent: there can't be exposure to alternatives if the alternatives are not given equal visibility.

Now, let's repeat what Asus did by making it into the law that resellers must offer 3/4 OS alternatives, and let's wait out a few more terrible Windows releases to see if a trend emerges.

> People want what they're used to, because that's what's working for them.

Understandable, but in practice Microsoft keeps breaking this deal with end-user having no say in the matter (did people overwhelmingly ask for gaming ads and XBox uninstallable links in W7? tiles in W8? Dumbed-down settings in W10? Bullshit AI in W11? …). Now compare this to running a regular upgradeable (or even rolling) linux distro, which one do you think offers the least disruption on the longer run?

Re: Microsoft's 'Recall' feature can't be uninstalled after all

#205

Post by ErikBjare »

486sx33 wrote: post #189
euroderf wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows+Micro$oft still seems to be the default for big installations, like tens of machines on a LAN needing centralized authentication. What is the state of Mac/Apple for this ? Can it be done ? Can MS be banished from the premises, perhaps traded for a Linux server here & there ?

I think Mac’s would be totally fine, albeit a higher hardware cost. You might actually find Mac’s to be better. My macOS machines have far better (continuous) uptime than windows. I’d say there is a stigma around Linux in North America, if I went into a shop and every machine was running Linux I’d either think they are dirt poor or some kind of underground Russian secret service operation. It just isn’t seen.

If I went into a shop and every machine was running Linux, I'd assume they have knowledgeable staff.

Idk why you'd think they're poor, as people say: "Linux is only free if you don't value your time"

Re: Microsoft's 'Recall' feature can't be uninstalled after all

#206

Post by ezst »

varunnrao wrote: post #132
ezst wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish this were a more accessible path for non-tech people. It should be forbidden to ship PCs with Windows preinstalled, unless the user made it a conscious purchase decision (and offered to choose between several options). I suspect fewer and fewer users would be willing to fork hundreds of bucks for something that's objectively terrible (and only getting worse), tech literacy would only improve as a result. But…

> It should be forbidden to ship PCs with Windows preinstalled, unless the user made it a conscious purchase decision (and offered to choose between several options). I don't know where you're buying PCs but where I'm from there is always an option to buy the PC with FreeDOS at a discount of about ~$20-30 compared to the Windows version. Lately, I also see an increase in Ubuntu computers. > But then you can bet Micro…

> I don't know where you're buying PCs but where I'm from there is always an option to buy the PC with FreeDOS at a discount of about ~$20-30 compared to the Windows version. Lately, I also see an increase in Ubuntu computers.

I'm not from there, it seems. The best you can do here is build your own PC, or go with a distributor (typically Dell/Lenovo) whose configuration allows opting-out of buying an OS. Needless to say that it's not a mainstream purchasing behaviour.

> MSFT have spent a lot of time, effort and dev years ensuring that their customers can run their software without breakage and downtime.

That wasn't my point at all. It was to stress how the ludicrous track-record of Microsoft anticompetitive practices, establishing and sustaining a decades-long monopoly, barred non-expert and non-enthusiasts from experiencing (possibly favourable) alternatives.

Re: Microsoft's 'Recall' feature can't be uninstalled after all

#207

Post by dylan604 »

laylower wrote: post #203

Why is recall needed? What does it even offer - what is the use case for its existence?

I assumed for readers of this forum, that answer would be obvious. They want the training data. The fact that it might possibly render a benefit to the user is totally a side effect

Re: Microsoft's 'Recall' feature can't be uninstalled after all

#208

Post by JohnFen »

leptons wrote: post #109
cmcaleer wrote: post #95

Unfortunate. Luckily, Windows itself can be removed. It's incredible how much Microsoft is resting on their laurels in terms of seeing Windows as insurmountable and so consumers must take whatever Microsoft decide to dish out. I would have been totally resigned to this fact a decade ago, but middle-school+ kids these days don't use Windows - they use Chromebooks. A huge minority of them use iPhones. Familiarity with…

Microsoft is in the process of jumping the shark. I'm sure it could be argued that Windows Vista was when they jumped the shark, or a dozen other times in the past. But it's Windows 11 or whatever they are cooking up right now that has them jumping the shark. I'm a die-hard Windows fan. After the Amiga was discontinued, I went to Windows and dug in. Now I'm moving to Linux. All of my many computers and even more virt…

> I'm sure it could be argued that Windows Vista was when they jumped the shark

I'd argue that they jumped the shark with Win8. It's been one step forward, two steps back ever since.

Re: Microsoft's 'Recall' feature can't be uninstalled after all

#209

Post by ChicagoDave »

zamadatix wrote: post #201
houseplant wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in all kindness, you're such an incredibly niche example of actual usage of this, that only proves it should've been opt-in instead of opt-out. I don't need to know what my tabs were 3 months ago. I don't need to treasure my precious history of browsing amazon for vacuum cleaners.

I'll agree they are an incredibly niche example of actually using this... but only because ways to do this right now are incredibly niche. The rest remains to be seen. If there hadn't been decades of normality of browsers storing history then people, particularly those in tech circles, would absolutely flip their shit if it were announced as part of Edge. There would be mass revolts on these forums if it would sync w…

I have Malwarebytes installed and block all trackers in Edge and on my iPhone.

The idea of recording my activity on my laptop is something I could see being useful in a business where I’m billing non-stop and this feature would automatically generate invoices.

But on my personal laptop? I really can’t think of a single legitimate scenario.

More importantly, I think Microsoft should be demonstrating what use cases it envisions outside of potentially generating LLM training data.

Re: Microsoft's 'Recall' feature can't be uninstalled after all

#210

Post by wkat4242 »

cmcaleer wrote: post #95

Unfortunate. Luckily, Windows itself can be removed. It's incredible how much Microsoft is resting on their laurels in terms of seeing Windows as insurmountable and so consumers must take whatever Microsoft decide to dish out. I would have been totally resigned to this fact a decade ago, but middle-school+ kids these days don't use Windows - they use Chromebooks. A huge minority of them use iPhones. Familiarity with…

> It's incredible how much Microsoft is resting on their laurels in terms of seeing Windows as insurmountable and so consumers must take whatever Microsoft decide to dish out.

Well no, they actually believe people want this. Microsoft strongly believe in "Data Driven Everything". Of course here in Europe we look very different at this due to privacy concerns. But trying to explain that to the MS consultants I work with is difficult. They're very much part of the cult of telemetry on everything and AI as the cherry on top.

They view deep analysis and reporting as their added value. Like those stupid office insight emails that tell you you didn't have enough speaking time in meetings or that you need to use @mention in teams more. They actually think companies and employees value that shit.

I've challenged them on this several times saying if they think people love it so much, why do you make it so hard to turn off? But they think it's just a matter of 'adoption' and users will love it once they get to know it. Their 'adoption' strategy is mainly marketing evangelisation crap that we're supposed to send out to the users.

I find it very weird to see how so many people can be so out of touch with reality. But I guess in the US they look at privacy very differently.

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