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Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

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Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#151

Post by eigenket »

throw10920 wrote: post #149
eigenket wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, that guy posted "Today was a terror attack by a Muslim...heads must roll" which again sounds like a call to violence to me. Sorry I picked the wrong guy calling for racial violence, my mistake.

You actively lied about the person that was jailed to further a political agenda of suppressing free speech, protest, and democracy. That's not a mistake, that's malice. Your bad indeed. Moreover, it's pretty clear that "heads must roll" is a euphemism used for people being punished or losing their job, and is almost always used in a non-violent context: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heads%20will%20ro...…

I didn't lie, I got the wrong guy because you weren't specific. In the context of his tweet I think it was clearly a call to violence. Almost always is not the same as always.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#152

Post by eigenket »

throw10920 wrote: post #150
eigenket wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, there's some stuff that you seem confused about here. Firstly she wasn't sentenced for insulting him, she was sentenced for threats of violence against him, specifically she wrote something like "you won't be able to go anywhere without having your face kicked in" and leaked his personal information. Secondly she was in jail for 2 days, this was Freizeitarrest which is legally distinct from an actual prison sente…

[flagged]

> She was not jailed solely for the threats of violence.

As far as I understand, yeah she was. I'm not an expert in the German legal system but while the defamation was also a crime my understanding is she wouldn't have been sent to jail for that.

As far as the rest of your comment goes, I already said in the comment you're replying to that in my opinion the sentence he was given was significantly too light. Thats a specific weird thing about the German legal system, they are (in my opinion) very light on people who are being tried as juveniles.

> You also missed the part about the fact that she got a harsher sentence for her speech than the rapist himself

I literally mentioned that in the comment you're replying too and as I've now said three times, in my opinion his sentence was not harsh enough.

I haven't lied anywhere on this thread.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#153

Post by brendoelfrendo »

Alifatisk wrote: post #148
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dot got more "likes" than Khamenei's Tweet. He was able to "ratio" the supreme leader's message without saying anything at all, and apparently the government decided that's worth 12 years in prison.

But was that really the case? Reading the other comments seem to imply that the article had a baity headline

We should probably read the article rather than the other comments. The article does mention that, while the accused's family is unsure of the exact motive, the arrest happened shortly after the "dot" post. Perhaps it was just the most visible form of dissent that they committed just prior to arrest.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#154

Post by throw10920 »

eigenket wrote: post #152
throw10920 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> She was not jailed solely for the threats of violence. As far as I understand, yeah she was. I'm not an expert in the German legal system but while the defamation was also a crime my understanding is she wouldn't have been sent to jail for that. As far as the rest of your comment goes, I already said in the comment you're replying to that in my opinion the sentence he was given was significantly too light. Thats a…

> my understanding is she wouldn't have been sent to jail for that.

Your "understanding" directly contradicts the links I posted saying that she was jailed for her insulting/offensive remarks.

> I haven't lied anywhere on this thread.

> He didn't get 3 years in prison for telling people to go out and protest, he told people to “set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards”.

That's a lie, right there. I was not referring to that person.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41429818

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#155

Post by eigenket »

throw10920 wrote: post #154
eigenket wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She was not jailed solely for the threats of violence. As far as I understand, yeah she was. I'm not an expert in the German legal system but while the defamation was also a crime my understanding is she wouldn't have been sent to jail for that. As far as the rest of your comment goes, I already said in the comment you're replying to that in my opinion the sentence he was given was significantly too light. Thats a…

> my understanding is she wouldn't have been sent to jail for that. Your "understanding" directly contradicts the links I posted saying that she was jailed for her insulting/offensive remarks. > I haven't lied anywhere on this thread. > He didn't get 3 years in prison for telling people to go out and protest, he told people to “set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards”. That's a lie, right there. I was…

Copying and pasting from literally the third sentence of the link you posted

> The young woman was convicted last week of sending "insulting and threatening" messages

The threatening is important

I didn't lie in the comment you linked, I just didn't magically guess which guy you were talking about. I apologise for that.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#156

Post by throw10920 »

eigenket wrote: post #151
throw10920 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You actively lied about the person that was jailed to further a political agenda of suppressing free speech, protest, and democracy. That's not a mistake, that's malice. Your bad indeed. Moreover, it's pretty clear that "heads must roll" is a euphemism used for people being punished or losing their job, and is almost always used in a non-violent context: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heads%20will%20ro...…

I didn't lie, I got the wrong guy because you weren't specific. In the context of his tweet I think it was clearly a call to violence. Almost always is not the same as always.

> I got the wrong guy because you weren't specific

That doesn't make it any less of a lie - you said something factually false about the person I was referring to. You also made an assumption that you knew could be false in order to push a political agenda and deceive others.

> Almost always is not the same as always.

This is grasping for straws, and has the tyrannical premise of "guilty until proven innocent" behind it. I really hope that you're not in a position of power in my country, or any one for that matter.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#157

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ants_everywhere wrote: post #59
christiangenco wrote: post #26

I've been thinking a lot recently about where I would personally draw the line on what sorts of speech should be criminal. If someone publicly called for specific violence (ex: "let's all meet at Joe's house to burn it down—I'll bring the lighter") that feels to me like the sort of thing that would be useful to do something about instead of waiting for the actual crime to be committed. But publicly stating that you s…

> without neutering the ability for a society to come up with new ideas. The goal isn't always this instrumental one. There is also freedom of conscience, which (like the US freedom of religion) isn't about generating new ideas. But wrt to the goal of generating new ideas you also need to consider all ways of making it too expensive to access information. There's the 1984 approach of violently preventing the spread o…

Real change - grassroots change - largely comes from a large number of small-scale interactions. Much of it is face-to-face. If you want to actually change things (rather than just broadcast a message to the world and expect things to change), you have to do the long, slow, patient work of talking to people.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#158

Post by throw10920 »

eigenket wrote: post #155
throw10920 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my understanding is she wouldn't have been sent to jail for that. Your "understanding" directly contradicts the links I posted saying that she was jailed for her insulting/offensive remarks. > I haven't lied anywhere on this thread. > He didn't get 3 years in prison for telling people to go out and protest, he told people to “set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards”. That's a lie, right there. I was…

Copying and pasting from literally the third sentence of the link you posted > The young woman was convicted last week of sending "insulting and threatening" messages The threatening is important I didn't lie in the comment you linked, I just didn't magically guess which guy you were talking about. I apologise for that.

You said above:

>> she wasn't sentenced for insulting him

...which is the falsehood that I pointed out with those links. I never claimed that the threat of violence didn't factor into it - you're the one who claimed that the insults didn't.

> I didn't lie in the comment you linked

You said something factually false about someone while knowing it could be false. That's epsilon away from lying, and it's certainly deceitful and deceptive, as are your statements above.

> didn't magically guess

So you magically guessed in the most malicious way possible instead of asking who I was talking about.

You also said:

> Are you lying or misinformed?

So you extremely confidently and aggressively projected your assumptions onto me.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#159

Post by AnimalMuppet »

throw10920 wrote: post #156
eigenket wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't lie, I got the wrong guy because you weren't specific. In the context of his tweet I think it was clearly a call to violence. Almost always is not the same as always.

> I got the wrong guy because you weren't specific That doesn't make it any less of a lie - you said something factually false about the person I was referring to. You also made an assumption that you knew could be false in order to push a political agenda and deceive others. > Almost always is not the same as always. This is grasping for straws, and has the tyrannical premise of "guilty until proven innocent" behind…

Dude, cool your jets. The site guidelines call for you to assume good faith; you are failing at that.

While you're at it, look up the definition of "lie". It doesn't mean "made a mistake out of confusion".

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#160

Post by eigenket »

throw10920 wrote: post #158
eigenket wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copying and pasting from literally the third sentence of the link you posted > The young woman was convicted last week of sending "insulting and threatening" messages The threatening is important I didn't lie in the comment you linked, I just didn't magically guess which guy you were talking about. I apologise for that.

You said above: >> she wasn't sentenced for insulting him ...which is the falsehood that I pointed out with those links. I never claimed that the threat of violence didn't factor into it - you're the one who claimed that the insults didn't. > I didn't lie in the comment you linked You said something factually false about someone while knowing it could be false. That's epsilon away from lying, and it's certainly decei…

>> my understanding is she wouldn't have been sent to jail for that.

> Your "understanding" directly contradicts the links I posted saying that she was jailed for her insulting/offensive remarks.

My copy and paste of the third sentence of your link was to point out that this is false.

As far as the lying goes, if I was trying to lie I wouldn't have linked an article naming the guy in my message. What I said was completely correct about a guy who matches the description you gave as much as the person you intended did (both told people to protest, both called for violence against migrants (in my opinion)). I made a mistake in that I didn't know there was a second one of these scumbags in the news currently. That mistake is on me but its not a lie.

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