Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#401

Post by CRConrad » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 12:05 PM UTC

dgfitz wrote: post #334

amrocha wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of trips are taken by foot or bicycle where I am. Statistically speaking, YOU can do it too.

The fuck do you think “statistically speaking” actually means? Your anecdote of 1 does not a statistic make.

> The fuck do you think “statistically speaking” actually means?

I think it means "The vast majority of trips are taken by foot or bicycle where I am." Which was, from another (very) nearby comment, Tokyo.

> Your anecdote of 1 does not a statistic make.

No, but the vast majority of trips in Tokyo does.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#402

Post by CRConrad » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 12:16 PM UTC

Stagnant wrote: post #251

Kiro wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should at least admit that this is an American problem. No-one in my family has a driver's license and it's not an issue whatsoever. There's very little reason to own a car in a society with a functioning public transport system.

I don't think it is fair to say that it is an "American problem". Not owning a car could be realistic if you live in a really large city where moving with public transport can potentially be faster than moving with a car. But even then I wonder how a family with kids would carry groceries unless you live right next to a supermarket. Often times in HN you get the impression like americans are the only ones using cars…

> But even then I wonder how a family with kids would carry groceries unless you live right next to a supermarket.

In bags, duh.

(Or a backpack.)

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#403

Post by CRConrad » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 12:23 PM UTC

Bloating wrote: post #219

imglorp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us actively hate big cars for daily use and are angered at the "SUV" (usually neither sport nor utility) unithink forced on us, and are frustrated how hard it is to find anything different. I want basically an electric Miata for around town, can't get one. I also want an actual utility vehicle with a long, solid, roof rack to haul a canoe or sheet of plywood. SUV roof racks are usually token, if at all. A pla…

They have meds to help with multiple personalities

"I want A and I also want B" has nothing to do with "multiple personalities". GP didn't say they wanted an electric Miata that also is a big station wagon, they said they wanted one and also the other -- two separate vehicles.

Hey, do you eat; do you at least every now and then want food? Do you ever wash; do you at least occasionally want soap? But wait, food isn't soap and soap isn't food -- if you want both, you must need medication for your multiple personalities!

See how ridiculous that was?

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#404

Post by CRConrad » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 12:47 PM UTC

AstralJaeger wrote: post #181

creer wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They drive with a discipline / care that Americans refuse to even consider. Perhaps Americans should.

As someone who regularly drives on German highways, including the Autobahn, I may ad my two cents. While German drivers are often praised for their discipline, the reality I've observed, especially in unlimited speed sections of the Autobahn, can be quite different. Many drivers there seem to focus primarily on their perceived right to drive as fast as they want, often creating dangerous situations for others who may…

> However, from my experience, it's not simply due to more careful drivers across the board. Other elements like road design, vehicle safety standards, strict enforcement of traffic laws, and comprehensive driver education systems likely play crucial roles

I would think elements like strict enforcement of traffic laws and comprehensive driver education systems likely play crucial roles by... leading to more careful drivers across the board.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#405

Post by CRConrad » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 1:07 PM UTC

nothercastle wrote: post #343

AstralJaeger wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering there are europeans sedans that have more cargo volume and are sginificantly shortler than some of these american battering rams

That’s because the us has no pedestrian impact design requirements and people like grills.

How does either of those lead to less cargo volume for the same or larger length?

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#406

Post by CRConrad » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 1:10 PM UTC

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #201

carabiner wrote: post #178

This was all caused by the CAFE emissions standards that allow cars with bigger footprints to emit more. Nobody wants bigger trucks, and in the Tacoma community it's a standard refrain to bemoan just how fucking big they've gotten. They aren't compact trucks anymore. They're midsize today. Compact trucks do not exist.

A picture is worth a thousand words: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUOgrdUYAELoAQ.jpg:large These two have the same bed length: https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2023/06/E... I own a 2020 F150 and I hate how big it is. Turning radius is pathetic. You have to climb into the bed like you're scaling a mountain. There's two sets of steps to get into the front seat (which is gigantic, like it's made for so…

> A picture is worth a thousand words: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUOgrdUYAELoAQ.jpg:large

I'm fairly sure that image is rather heavily manipulated.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#407

Post by CRConrad » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 1:19 PM UTC

xqcgrek2 wrote: post #210

The solution is easy. Humans shouldn't be the ones driving cars.

OK, no cars then. Because the alternative is even worse.

(Unless you have some new secret scheme of extremely well-trained animals...? What kind?)

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#408

Post by consteval » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 4:27 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #394

dwattttt wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have to assume buyers would ignore a pedestrian safety rating. It might make people feel uncomfortable, and that's entirely ok.

I suspect the people it would make feel uncomfortable and the people currently buying unnecessarily large vehicles wouldn't have a lot of overlap.

> people currently buying unnecessarily large vehicles wouldn't have a lot of overlap

Maybe I'm naive, but I think most people buying large vehicles aren't selfish, they're ill-informed and susceptible to social pressure and advertising.

The only reason I say this is because most people have big cars in the US now. But they're also objectively worse for most commuters. It doesn't add up.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#409

Post by consteval » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 4:29 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #302

Groxx wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a near ideal example of why free markets can lead to a worse overall result, yeah. Everyone wants to be individually safer, this is all a reasonable trajectory brought on by incremental steps in that direction. We desperately need regulation. The market won't turn itself around, it'll just ensure the ones that are helping are killed the quickest.

The question is, what regulation? If you just try to ban or heavily tax larger vehicles, well, there are legitimate reasons to have those sometimes. Businesses need trucks and you don't want heavy taxes on innocent small businesses. Parents involved in school activities are regularly transporting entire sports teams etc. and putting a dozen kids in two vehicles is safer and more efficient than three or four vehicles.…

Off the top of my head - a large vehicle license, which comes with increased taxes or fees or something. Businesses that require those vehicles can pay it. And maybe we can even have waivers or something for small businesses, or non-profits, or households with 4+ kids.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#410

Post by consteval » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 4:34 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #199

PaulHoule wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be the opposite. Part of the problem is that carmakers refuse to sell small cars. If you don’t believe me try to buy a small car at a car dealership in America. Consumers are angry about rising costs, particularly for automobiles, and having a choice to buy an affordable vehicle could be surprisingly popular. For instance I think electric vehicle adoption is stalled because there aren’t many people who can affo…

>Part of the problem is that carmakers refuse to sell small cars. If you don’t believe me try to buy a small car at a car dealership in America. >Consumers are angry about rising costs, particularly for automobiles, and having a choice to buy an affordable vehicle could be surprisingly popular. Consumers may claim they care about rising costs, but the fact that more expensive SUVs are outselling sedans makes me think…

> it's the consumers who are refusing to buy small cars

I think it's more complicated. Consumers are stupid, or rather, easily manipulated.

SUVs and Trucks have much higher margins than sedans and other small cars. It is advantage to any car manufacturer to sell mostly SUVs and Trucks because you get more money per unit of work. Essentially, you do 110% of the work of a sedan but charge 150%-200% as much. It's a no brainer.

So of course the advertisements primarily focus on SUVs and Trucks. I don't know how much free will consumers truly have in a system with such intense advertising.