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The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

quantamagazine.org

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Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#141

Post by fredgrott »

nis0s wrote: post #77

Physiological responses, the kind relayed from major body organs to the brain via the vagus nerve, are not necessarily your “mind” in the sense that they contribute towards your conscious actions or self-directed goals. But yeah, they send signals which can be interpreted one way vs. another depending on if you’re being mindful. Arousal is especially interesting because you can compress a nerve in the right way and e…

its even more complicated than that... -Parkinson's has lower amount of GI lining -Parkinson's is a severe lowering of dopamine...how severe...patients take 1800mg dopamine daily....

Almost kissing cousin to ADHD....

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#142

Post by bookofjoe »

vinay_ys wrote: post #140
bookofjoe wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For perspective, when I learned to do nerve blocks (UCLA Department of Anesthesiology, 1977-1980 residency), portable ultrasound for guidance was a pipe dream. For the axillary approach to brachial plexus blocks, we tried to elicit paresthesias from actual needle impaction on nerves and then pulled back a tad and injected a bolus of anesthetic. We did that repeatedly, aiming to deposit anesthetic near each branch of…

Surprised to find a bunch of anesthesiologists hanging around here. How come?

HN is my favorite place on the internet. I only wish I'd discovered it before I stumbled on it in 2016.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#143

Post by piombisallow »

hobo_mark wrote: post #119
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #3

I have extracted this (and other) nerves from cadavers, and this circuitous cranial nerve (XII?) is as beautiful and complex as the multibranch plexus -es (e.g. brachial ). So delicate. Human anatomy, at first glance, often seems wrongly-engineered. After you've worked inside dozens of people, you begin to realize that everybody is unique — and nobody is "textbook" anatomy. Who knows what all this goop even does?! If…

I know med students get to attend cadaver vivisections, is this accessible to others as well? (of course this may depend on jurisdiction and university practice, just asking in general in case anyone has experience).

Probably only for some kind of research study.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#144

Post by phkahler »

burnte wrote: post #59
ViktorRay wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting you mention “Nobody is textbook anatomy” I know you’re exaggerating for poetic effect but this might actually be true in some parts of the human anatomy. For example the description of the anatomy of vessels and anastomoses around the knee…I have had a professor tell me that the standard anatomical descriptions for this might all essentially be fiction. Basically the variation in some of these vessel…

> I know you’re exaggerating for poetic effect but this might actually be true in some parts of the human anatomy. I had an ingrown toenail fixed. There is a nerve that comes in and branches in two in the bug toe. In my toe it branches into three!

I know someone where the main artery into one kidney branches in two. Seems like a possible evolutionary step to bifurcation into more smaller kidneys. ;-)

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#145

Post by onlypassingthru »

phkahler wrote: post #144
burnte wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know you’re exaggerating for poetic effect but this might actually be true in some parts of the human anatomy. I had an ingrown toenail fixed. There is a nerve that comes in and branches in two in the bug toe. In my toe it branches into three!

I know someone where the main artery into one kidney branches in two. Seems like a possible evolutionary step to bifurcation into more smaller kidneys. ;-)

Anecdata: A family member had one of those third smaller kidneys.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#146

Post by BoxOfRain »

lariattra wrote: post #117
fsckboy wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your body is your mind, but a physiological reaction relayed from a nerve is only part of the equation that’s you. you are presenting an untestable-and-only-descriptive-hypothesis as a theory. if we assume that what we know about it today is all there is, then yes, it must be your way. But why assume that what we know is all there is, that assumption has always turned out wrong for thousands of years? Better to say…

The problem is 400 years ago people would have said exactly this about the soul. It seems very possible the mind is just a superstitious artifact but this idea persist in various forms because to let go of it truly means the lights go out at death. We seem incredibly good at telling ourselves stories to deny that reality.

There's no 'I think therefore I am' equivalent for the notion of a soul as there is for the notion of a mind though, it's easy to say there's no such thing as a soul for lack of evidence but I don't think you can relegate the mind to same category as trivially. If the mind is a mere illusion then what is the nature of the thing being deceived by that illusion for example?

I don't think it's necessary a fear of death which makes theories that eliminate the mind unappealing to many either, personally I find the idea of oblivion a lot less unsettling than many of the proposed afterlifes!

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#147

Post by mejutoco »

eagerpace wrote: post #63
cosignal wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people wonder why the use of ‘AI’ in pathology is not more effective, and this is part of the reason.

It seems like exactly the kind of thing AI will be better at than humans. If just needs to be trained on the variations instead of the textbook.

Sounds similar to symbolic reasoning (for example algebra) vs finding the most likely completion.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#149

Post by fsckboy »

lariattra wrote: post #117
fsckboy wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your body is your mind, but a physiological reaction relayed from a nerve is only part of the equation that’s you. you are presenting an untestable-and-only-descriptive-hypothesis as a theory. if we assume that what we know about it today is all there is, then yes, it must be your way. But why assume that what we know is all there is, that assumption has always turned out wrong for thousands of years? Better to say…

The problem is 400 years ago people would have said exactly this about the soul. It seems very possible the mind is just a superstitious artifact but this idea persist in various forms because to let go of it truly means the lights go out at death. We seem incredibly good at telling ourselves stories to deny that reality.

>The problem is 400 years ago people would have said exactly this about the soul.

that's not a problem. you have proof there is no soul? if there is another "physics-cal" ingredient for the mind that we don't know about, and it is discovered in a particle accelerator, "it" could even be the soul.

I was an atheist from my earliest beginnings (when my 5 years older sister tried to teach little-me what she learned in Sunday school, I did not believe it, at all), and I have never believed, and still don't. HOWEVER, intellectually it freed my mind to figure out/learn/realize that "scientific materialism" is based on just as much pure FAITH as religion; only it's generally accompanied by less doubt so it comes off as, forget about arrogant, blind. I try now to no longer to say things that are based on assumption.

Correlation is not causation, right? you know what the implications of that is? We have no evidence of causation of anything anywhere in the universe, all we have is very good correlation, even through our popperian refutable hypotheses, "well, it's worked every time we've made a prediction and tried it" is not causation any more than just correlation.

so what people said 400 years ago about souls, and what they say today about minds, you still should not claim to know the answer to, simply because you don't. And I know this from the perspective of holding the same BELIEFS as you.

and before anybody writes to tell me I'm wrong, be prepared to answer these questions: what is the mechanism for gravity? what is the mechanism for momentum? what is the mechanism for electric charge? you won't be able to say anything except "it's a property we observe"

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#150

Post by guerrilla »

fsckboy wrote: post #83
nis0s wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is the idea of mind-body duality. Your body is your mind, but a physiological reaction relayed from a nerve is only part of the equation that’s you.

> Your body is your mind, but a physiological reaction relayed from a nerve is only part of the equation that’s you. you are presenting an untestable-and-only-descriptive-hypothesis as a theory. if we assume that what we know about it today is all there is, then yes, it must be your way. But why assume that what we know is all there is, that assumption has always turned out wrong for thousands of years? Better to say…

> you are presenting an untestable-and-only-descriptive-hypothesis as a theory.

> if we assume that what we know about it today is all there is,

This is a contradiction. It's easy to falsify the hypothesis: Show us that this isn't all there is. Until that time, it's a good hypothesis.

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