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Texas Is Arming Mexico's Gunmen

texasobserver.org

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Re: Texas Is Arming Mexico's Gunmen

#11

Post by BLKNSLVR »

smsm42 wrote: post #8

Somehow no mention of Operation Fast and Furious, where the US government forced US gun sellers to sell guns to straw purchasers with the explicit purpose to deliver those guns to Mexican cartels? US government then lied to the Congress about it and invoked "executive privilege" to hide the details of this operation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Critically, the GPS battery life was only a few days and the GPS weapon "tracker" signal was routinely lost especially in car trunks

Sounds like what a high schooler would do when trying to stalk someone. Or, alternatively, what a corrupt Attorney's office would do if they were working for Mexican Drug Cartels who needed weapons.

Re: Texas Is Arming Mexico's Gunmen

#12

Post by therein »

harmmonica wrote: post #9

I don’t spend too much time thinking about guns so this is going to sound pretty ignorant, but reading this article is the first time I realized the terrible feedback loop at play here: the more guns sold the more crimes committed with guns the more people justify wanting/having guns to protect themselves from crime. Duh, says anyone who reads that. But, with recent US Supreme Court decisions further expanding gun ri…

If you take away guns from people who are honest and honorable and just want to protect their own by setting stones in legal avenues to acquire them, you create an environment in which only the criminals have guns.

Re: Texas Is Arming Mexico's Gunmen

#13

Post by harmmonica »

wmf wrote: post #10
harmmonica wrote: post #9

I don’t spend too much time thinking about guns so this is going to sound pretty ignorant, but reading this article is the first time I realized the terrible feedback loop at play here: the more guns sold the more crimes committed with guns the more people justify wanting/having guns to protect themselves from crime. Duh, says anyone who reads that. But, with recent US Supreme Court decisions further expanding gun ri…

Progressives would tell you that gun violence is mostly caused by poverty, the drug war, and various institutional failures (e.g. El Salvador before the gang crackdown) and thus if you reduce these problems you'll also reduce violence.

Not sure whether to feel good or bad about your list because of how intractable those things seem to be, but at this point limiting access to guns is probably even more unlikely so it seems like the focus needs to be on those root causes and not on the guns.

Re: Texas Is Arming Mexico's Gunmen

#14

Post by BLKNSLVR »

therein wrote: post #12
harmmonica wrote: post #9

I don’t spend too much time thinking about guns so this is going to sound pretty ignorant, but reading this article is the first time I realized the terrible feedback loop at play here: the more guns sold the more crimes committed with guns the more people justify wanting/having guns to protect themselves from crime. Duh, says anyone who reads that. But, with recent US Supreme Court decisions further expanding gun ri…

If you take away guns from people who are honest and honorable and just want to protect their own by setting stones in legal avenues to acquire them, you create an environment in which only the criminals have guns.

I have heard (hearsay, mind you, I don't have solid fact or figures) that having a gun for protection tends to cause more problems than it solves. Not sure if it's an actually quantifiable position, but I am sure it won't sway anyone who's firmly on one side of the argument.

Re: Texas Is Arming Mexico's Gunmen

#15

Post by harmmonica »

therein wrote: post #12
harmmonica wrote: post #9

I don’t spend too much time thinking about guns so this is going to sound pretty ignorant, but reading this article is the first time I realized the terrible feedback loop at play here: the more guns sold the more crimes committed with guns the more people justify wanting/having guns to protect themselves from crime. Duh, says anyone who reads that. But, with recent US Supreme Court decisions further expanding gun ri…

If you take away guns from people who are honest and honorable and just want to protect their own by setting stones in legal avenues to acquire them, you create an environment in which only the criminals have guns.

I was asking, given that it’s unlikely that guns are going to be further controlled, what hope is there for stemming gun violence. Maybe you’re saying gun violence goes down the more the honorable are armed? It’s a genuine question. Not sure you were attempting to answer that particular question.

Like I said, loaded topic. Trying to avoid charged language so please take my words as sincere.

Re: Texas Is Arming Mexico's Gunmen

#16

Post by akomtu »

harmmonica wrote: post #9

I don’t spend too much time thinking about guns so this is going to sound pretty ignorant, but reading this article is the first time I realized the terrible feedback loop at play here: the more guns sold the more crimes committed with guns the more people justify wanting/having guns to protect themselves from crime. Duh, says anyone who reads that. But, with recent US Supreme Court decisions further expanding gun ri…

If nearly everyone suddenly became selfless saints who never defend themselves, because they know that evil cannot extinguish evil, then the few remaining predators, who enjoy invoking fear in others, would turn this selfless society into hell. It seems to me this paradox cannot be resolved other than by separating the good part of humanity from the evil one, which isn't possible while there's a sizeable grey area in between - the undecided ones.

Re: Texas Is Arming Mexico's Gunmen

#17

Post by pjmlp »

smsm42 wrote: post #8

Somehow no mention of Operation Fast and Furious, where the US government forced US gun sellers to sell guns to straw purchasers with the explicit purpose to deliver those guns to Mexican cartels? US government then lied to the Congress about it and invoked "executive privilege" to hide the details of this operation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

An then everyone pretends it is so much better than other governments.

Re: Texas Is Arming Mexico's Gunmen

#18

Post by marc_abonce »

The author works for an NGO called Stop US Arms to Mexico which is lobbying for several policy changes in the US to "reduce US legal gun sales to Mexico to pre-Merida Initiative (2007) levels".

This is the first time I hear about them and I'm not an expert on US law, so I don't know how effective would their proposals be, but at least discussing possible improvements is better than the defeatism that unfortunately dominates in both countries nowadays.

https://stopusarmstomexico.org/advocacy-policy-solutions/

Re: Texas Is Arming Mexico's Gunmen

#19

Post by sottol »

akomtu wrote: post #16
harmmonica wrote: post #9

I don’t spend too much time thinking about guns so this is going to sound pretty ignorant, but reading this article is the first time I realized the terrible feedback loop at play here: the more guns sold the more crimes committed with guns the more people justify wanting/having guns to protect themselves from crime. Duh, says anyone who reads that. But, with recent US Supreme Court decisions further expanding gun ri…

If nearly everyone suddenly became selfless saints who never defend themselves, because they know that evil cannot extinguish evil, then the few remaining predators, who enjoy invoking fear in others, would turn this selfless society into hell. It seems to me this paradox cannot be resolved other than by separating the good part of humanity from the evil one, which isn't possible while there's a sizeable grey area in…

Or the police could do that but somehow they can't seem to.
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