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The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

quantamagazine.org

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Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#81

Post by __turbobrew__ »

computerdork wrote: post #27
loceng wrote: post #7

My vagus nerves were constantly being compressed until roughly 4 months ago, when I had bilateral Eagle's syndrome surgeries - Eagle's syndrome a hardening, calcification-ossification of ligaments that connect from the styloid process and wrap around the neck connecting to front of throat; I had played American football for all of high school and most likely the cause from reptitive injuries/trauma to the tissues. We…

My story is very similar. Have had tons of pain and muscle related problems for decades - played a ton of sports like you when i was a kid, and did a lot of physical risk-taking too (skateboarding, bmx-style biking taking them off jump-ramps...) and also had lots of injuries. On top of chronic pain, I had (and still have but is greatly reduced) muscle clenching on the left side of my body - for some reason my body on…

How did you go about finding problematic nerves? I have had issues with nerve pain in my left leg for about 7 years now, did the full gamut of MRI s, bone scans, CT scans, ultrasound and saw about 5 different specialists including a neurologist and nobody has been able to help me.

Exercise definitely helps but it doesn’t actually seem to turn the nerves off, just desensitize them.

Sitting is very painful as I get pain in my sit bone and shooting numbness down my leg and all the way into my foot.

I have almost given up and accepted that I will be a cripple for the rest of my life. I live in British Columbia where the medical system is OK, but not near world class and all of the ambitious doctors have went to the USA.

I have a very bad bite which makes me suspect that my whole posture is messed up from the top down.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#82

Post by devilbunny »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #61
devilbunny wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why we use ultrasound on practically every block we do today.

Would you consider investing in becoming an imaging technologist in today's US healthcare market? IIRC, ultrasound is top of that payscale ..?

I honestly don’t know anything about that market. We don’t use sonographers because it’s interventional; I need to be able to control my own view very tightly.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#83

Post by fsckboy »

nis0s wrote: post #79
fsckboy wrote: post #12

> The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection if it does, then the vagus nerve orchestrates the brain-body connection. the mind-body problem, or if you prefer the mind-brain problem, remains unsolved. and apparently, mind-brain confusion persists as well.

Part of the problem is the idea of mind-body duality. Your body is your mind, but a physiological reaction relayed from a nerve is only part of the equation that’s you.

>Your body is your mind, but a physiological reaction relayed from a nerve is only part of the equation that’s you.

you are presenting an untestable-and-only-descriptive-hypothesis as a theory.

if we assume that what we know about it today is all there is, then yes, it must be your way. But why assume that what we know is all there is, that assumption has always turned out wrong for thousands of years? Better to say "we don't know what the nature of the mind is or where it comes from beyond the clear evidence that it's tied to the brain."

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#84

Post by throaway827 »

jimiray wrote: post #72
Nav_Panel wrote: post #2

I really wish these articles cited more primary sources. I would love (and prefer) to review the empirical work that led to the communicated understanding of these systems.

Look up Polyvagal Theory by Stephen Porgess. https://www.stephenporges.com/

but is the polyvagal theory backed up by concrete scientific evidence? i’ve heard tons about it but practitioners never seem to have real statistics about it all. i thought that the polyvagal theory has never been actually proven?

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#85

Post by yareally »

s5300 wrote: post #38
computerdork wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My story is very similar. Have had tons of pain and muscle related problems for decades - played a ton of sports like you when i was a kid, and did a lot of physical risk-taking too (skateboarding, bmx-style biking taking them off jump-ramps...) and also had lots of injuries. On top of chronic pain, I had (and still have but is greatly reduced) muscle clenching on the left side of my body - for some reason my body on…

>> for some reason my body on the left side is clenching up, with this constant pulling on my head, pulling down and to the left. I also have severe TMJ, again on the left, and constant headache @computerdork do you have a tongue tie/lingual frenulum or narrow airways/diaphragmatic dysfunction? These things can cause extreme issues with the fascia that lead to things presenting in such a manner. If you’ve made it to…

I had some issues from turning my neck to look at at a side monitor for extended periods. You're supposed to turn your whole body to avoid strain, but it's easy to forget.

Neck strain and tmj can be related as well from the overuse of muscles.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#86

Post by salad-tycoon »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #26
nojs wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one get this chance?

Multiple options, including: attend medical school; become employed by an anatomy farm. As for "chance of being hacked apart," anybody can donate their cadaver to science — most facilities require prior enrollment and will recover the corpse, nationwide. You might end up sold into scientific experimentation... if you're morbidly obese (e.g.) you won't be used for student anatomy (if you care).

And one example of scientific experiment is being left out on an open field to study how cadavers decompose when exposed to “the elements” wind/rain/sun/bugs/birds/wolves etc to help solve crime scenes. You can look up forensic anthropologists and body farms for more info.

Not my cup of tea, personally, but my ultimate point is you might get used in something you disagree with. Look into the history of cell lines used in medicine for some of the controversy and perpetual pain for surviving family members, as an example.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#87

Post by salad-tycoon »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #58
breck wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you ever get the chance, I highly recommend this humbling human experience. Not as good as doing your own dissection, but a million times better than an anatomy book is visiting a plastination exhibit: https://breckyunits.com/ketoneMap.html

I attended the Bodies Exhibit c. 2007/8, which was a bunch of deceased Chinese prisoners preserved without consent... but it was still really cool . Models of circulatory systems with plastesizers and then all other flesh removed — incredible and complex and unique-to-each-human. 2008/9 I did anatomy prosections and had an absolute blast, but ultimately did not become licensed.

Yes, a bit uncomfortable to consider the ones they have plasticized into sexual acts into eternity and the pregnant woman and fetus (and there’s a lot of intrigue into that poor lady and baby). But ultimately, the non-consensual advancement of understanding of our bodies is a deep, dark, tragic rabbit hole that goes from antiquity up to… this very moment.

Don’t know what to do with the information I have discovered in the end but a good reminder to pause and reflect occasionally with the hope that we may not enable whatever the next “great idea, damn the costs” is.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#88

Post by salad-tycoon »

clarkrinker wrote: post #31

I was looking for research papers for the 9 non invasive vagus stimulators I get ads for on instagram. Anyone have success with these for anxiety/depression

Just caution, don’t turn it up to much and don’t overdo it. More is not better. A style of it can be had cheaply with a TENS 7000 and ear clip set off of Amazon. You will find research and anecdotes to support your decision either way. That’s a truism that’s always been true but perhaps especially in this day and age of overstimulated people and an endless amount of content generators.

Ultimately if you think it’s working then it’s working.

A lower risk way is probably breathing techniques and meditation apps.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#89

Post by Perenti »

loceng wrote: post #7

My vagus nerves were constantly being compressed until roughly 4 months ago, when I had bilateral Eagle's syndrome surgeries - Eagle's syndrome a hardening, calcification-ossification of ligaments that connect from the styloid process and wrap around the neck connecting to front of throat; I had played American football for all of high school and most likely the cause from reptitive injuries/trauma to the tissues. We…

Oh boy, so familiar. I have Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, which is another CNS sensitised pain syndrome. "localised" for CRPS is usually a whole limb though. It's hard to explain how fully mind-consuming neuropathy is, as most people don't get much more than a toothache or a sciatica flare (which are bad enough, but usually "short" lived).

I've had an aweful lot of procedures and meds over 30 years, over 200, including 12 spinal procedures in 12 weeks when an attempt to deliver steroids to the C7 dorsal horn tore my dura mater. Very unpleasant.

It's really hard, as you say, to find good medical practitioners when you've got chronic nerve pain. They have to understand the relationship between hyperalgesia, allodynia (things that should not hurt hurting like crazy), movement (and lack of same) and meds, physio and psychs. Other injuries get involved once your brain is programmed to hurt you, and post surgical care involves more hard drugs to avoid sensitisation, leading to more complex drug tapering to get off the damn opioids (which only make chronic nerve pain worse paradoxically).

You say "I'm at my wit's end", and I've been there, past it and back again. You need to see a pain psychologist, a specialist psych. They can teach you "Jedi mind tricks" that may work for you. Things like how to focus your conciousnes into a bit that's NOT hurting. How to use disassociation to help getting day-to-day tasks done when you just want to curl up in a ball and cry.

I also strongly suggest you get in touch with other chronic pain patients. It's incredibly helpful to know you're not a weak freak who is a wimp and a weakling. To hear that other people have the same struggles. And to hear strategies for doing things that don't hurt as much.

Here in Brisbane people used to meet once a year in King George Square, for "Colour the World Orange" day. Three of these people are now friends who know what I mean by "it's not a good day". I found actually meeting other sufferers in the flesh to reinforce knowing that I'm not alone with this curse, other people struggle too.

And one from that group is in remission. We're all living vicariously through her, as this gives hope. Hope is what we all need.

Re: The vagus nerve orchestrates the mind-body connection

#90

Post by portn0y »

devilbunny wrote: post #35
ViktorRay wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting you mention “Nobody is textbook anatomy” I know you’re exaggerating for poetic effect but this might actually be true in some parts of the human anatomy. For example the description of the anatomy of vessels and anastomoses around the knee…I have had a professor tell me that the standard anatomical descriptions for this might all essentially be fiction. Basically the variation in some of these vessel…

No, really: nobody has completely textbook anatomy. Think of it like those blended-face photos. Anatomy books describe that.

Gradients, spectrums, distributions; oh my
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