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Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

economist.com

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Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#291

Post by dgfitz »

amrocha wrote: post #239
dgfitz wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People should be walking or cycling around town. This. Is a very out of touch opinion. I could write 20 paragraphs disagreeing, but I doubt it is worth my time to write or anyone else’s to read. Not every person is able-bodied enough to walk and bike. Also, people happen to need to get from A to B when it is cold, dark, raining, extremely hot, snowing, or just some kind of shitty outside. People need to drive to a…

Alright, I'll respond. >Not every person is able-bodied enough to walk and bike And the same goes for cars, except kids can ride bikes, so car accessibility is actually just worse. >Also, people happen to need to get from A to B when it is cold, dark, raining, extremely hot, snowing, or just some kind of shitty outside You can walk or cycle in all of those conditions. In fact, I have walked or cycled in all of those…

> You can walk or cycle in all of those conditions.

YOU can do that, sure. You need to look past your own nose to objectively weigh in on these topics.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#292

Post by berikv »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #165
roughly wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. I'm actually curious how much of this danger is primarily to pedestrians and cyclists. On the margins, I'd expect in a crash a 6000lb vehicle with modern safety equipment to be saf…

Honestly, I don't think the weight of the car matters too much in an accident with a bicycle or pedestrian. I was hit a few times by cars at low speed (10-20 km/h) while riding my motorcycle and the weight of the car did not matter, when I was rear ended if the car was 20% (300 kg) lighter it would still be 4 times the mass of (me + bike), so the impact would be similar. A car versus a pedestrian is almost identical…

Not saying you are wrong, but this is anecdotal. I’d rather try to interpret crash statistics than use my own experience.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#293

Post by tzs »

xwall wrote: post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

> The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists.

In a high speed collision between two cars I can see how a weight difference could greatly increase the danger in the lighter vehicle.

In a collision between a car and a pedestrian I don't see how weight could make much of a difference.

Yes, I know that if car A weighs 50% more than car B then at a given speed A will have 1.5 times as much momentum and 2.5 times as much kinetic energy as car B, but when there is a large mass difference between the thing doing the hitting (the car in this case) and the thing being hit (a pedestrian) momentum and kinetic energy don't really matter.

Think of it this way. A large freight train moving at 1 km/hr will have way more momentum and kinetic energy than a Ford F-150 moving at 80 km/hr, but getting hit by the freight train probably wouldn't seriously hurt you (unless you happened to fall and it ran over you) whereas an 80 km/hr F-150 would very likely kill you on impact.

From what I've read the problem with these vehicles in pedestrian collisions is with the shape of the front of them. They tend to have high, fairly vertical, front ends which can sweep you up so you are rapidly accelerated to the velocity of that car. Damage would be similar to what you'd get if you fell at the velocity of the car onto a rigid surface. Cars with lower, most slanted, front ends toss you onto the hood and over the car, which is much less likely to kill you.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#294

Post by hermitcrab »

penguin_booze wrote: post #124

Sadly, there's no more a thing called Americans' problem. Like an STD, what are later realized as problems, usually start in the US and then spread across the globe. Not that the rest of the world doesn't have their own crap, but because US media and culture is (one of) the the loudest, what's seen in America is often interpreted as cool and then copied rather readily and quickly. Guns seem to be buckling the trend s…

It is noticeable that large SUVs and pickup trucks are becoming more prevalent in the UK.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#295

Post by tbrownaw »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #233
doubled112 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had this conversation with many people before. When I had my first son, we upgraded from a Chevy Aveo5 to a Ford Focus. Everybody told me it was still much too small for a couple with a child. It’s a family sedan anywhere except North America. Go away.

This "family cars must be huge" take is a weird take, too. Can a Ford Focus fit a car seat? Yes! Then it's big enough for a couple with a child. I guess I'll add rear doors; even if a car seat would fit in the rear of a coupe, I wouldn't recommend that for anyone. If your family requires more than 4 seats on a regular basis, sure, get a minivan; but I don't understand the appeal of an F150 or other large vehicle as a…

> Can a Ford Focus fit a car seat? Yes!

Sometimes!

I'm 6'3", so it only fits on the passenger side.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#296

Post by AnthonyMouse »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #247
nradov wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion of charging different fees or taxes by engine displacement is idiotic. It has nothing particularly to do with road wear, emissions, or safety hazards.

Larger displacement engines are almost invariably in larger, heavier, vehicles. Axle weight determines road wear. I agree that using the axle weight would be better but displacement taxes were also a luxury tax. Some of my cars over the years: Mini: 600 kg, 850 cc Rover 75: 1 700 kg, 2 500 cc Chevy Van: 2500 kg, 5 000 cc

> Larger displacement engines are almost invariably in larger, heavier, vehicles.

This isn't even a good approximation because turbochargers (which nearly all heavy, diesel vehicles have) significantly increase power at the same displacement. The 5 liter Mustang weighs less than 4000 pounds. Here's a >10,000 pound bus with a 3.2L diesel engine:

https://www.tescobus.com/bus-for-sale/collins/school/

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#298

Post by nickmp »

grecy wrote: post #194
xwall wrote: post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

> Regulators are ill-equipped to address the issue: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's rating system focuses on occupant safety, not the safety of other road users In the US. In Europe pedestrian crash safety is a BIG deal.

Not a big enough deal. Pedestrian airbags are a thing that have been invented, but are scarecely on cars or trucks. Same with external cameras for better visibility. Lots of dragging feet from the industry.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#299

Post by AnthonyMouse »

loeg wrote: post #71
xwall wrote: post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

> Regulators are ill-equipped to address the issue: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's rating system focuses on occupant safety, not the safety of other road users, and tax policies subsidize heavier vehicles. Ill-equipped, or asleep at the wheel? NHTSA could extend their rating system to incorporate the safety of people outside the tested vehicle, but have failed to.

Who is the target audience? Insurance companies already have the statistics. Buyers care about occupant safety and would largely ignore a pedestrian safety rating.

If you tried to force it into a combined rating you'd probably make the problem worse because then people would know that large vehicles are being punished in safety ratings and refuse to buy small vehicles even more than they do now because they can't distinguish whether a good safety rating is from occupant or pedestrian safety.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#300

Post by abhay37 »

coliveira wrote: post #145
abhay37 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All prices of all components are listed, thus I have no reason to hire salesmen. You pick the components as if you are building a PC. There is a huge demand for this, and the savings from fewer middlemen can go elsewhere. Of course there are several laws and policies on national and statewide levels enshrining the current anti-consumer model because it "creates jobs".

Salesmen are not an expense, they're a profit center. Every company knows this. They will sell more expensive cars and increase the dealer's profit, that's why this model persists.

Except in my imaginary scenario, me being the only dealership doing that would bring me much more from beating the competition. So others would need to adopt my model to compete if I were legally able to do what I claim (see my earlier post.)
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