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Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

economist.com

181–190 of 429 posts

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#181
post #159

Germany has a ratio of 3.9 deaths per 100,000 people, while America's ratio is 12.4 per 100,000—essentially 4x higher. And they have the autobahn. Not like they are driving slower.

They drive with a discipline / care that Americans refuse to even consider. Perhaps Americans should.

As someone who regularly drives on German highways, including the Autobahn, I may ad my two cents. While German drivers are often praised for their discipline, the reality I've observed, especially in unlimited speed sections of the Autobahn, can be quite different.

Many drivers there seem to focus primarily on their perceived right to drive as fast as they want, often creating dangerous situations for others who may be able to or want to drive as fast and thus often not have time to react. I've witnessed numerous close calls and risky maneuvers that don't align with the idealized view of German driving discipline.

That said, the significant difference in road fatality rates between Germany and the US suggests there are indeed factors contributing to safer roads in Germany. However, from my experience, it's not simply due to more careful drivers across the board. Other elements like road design, vehicle safety standards, strict enforcement of traffic laws, and comprehensive driver education systems likely play crucial roles, see the pathway to a german drivers license which includes about 9 hours of practice training with a driving instructor.

Rather than looking abroad for examples of driver behavior, it might be more productive for the US to focus on improving road safety through comprehensive measures. This could include enhancing driver education, implementing stricter enforcement of existing traffic laws, and investing in safer road infrastructure.

The goal should be to create a system that encourages and facilitates safer driving for everyone, regardless of individual driver attitudes. While there's certainly room for improvement in American driving habits, the solution likely lies in systemic changes rather than simply emulating perceived behaviors from other countries.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#182
post #86

Let's consider the energy efficiency of moving a vehicle weighing about 2000kg to transport a person who weighs around 100kg. That's a ratio of vehicle to person of about 20:1. A potential solution would be to give heavier cars worse crash ratings. This approach would take into account not only the safety of the occupants of the car but also the occupants of other vehicles.

That's exactly how it works in the Euro NCAP ratings: https://www.euroncap.com/en/car-safety/the-ratings-explained...

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#183
post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

What about the internal organs of people in big cars? IIRC, a long time ago, after a serious collision, paramedics were at first puzzled as to why the seemingly unharmed person behind the wheel was dead. Later it turned out that their internal organs had been ripped out of their arteries because big cars have/have much worse impact zones than smaller cars.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars damage infrastructure in proportion to the fourth power of axle load. Not only are people in big cars killing people in little cars, they're also HEAVILY subsidized by the people they kill. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

We do it different in Europe: pay disproportionate by engine displacement. My father's car has 10x the taxes as my mother's car just because the engine is 1.6 times larger (2.5 liters, nothing outrageous). At the same time my mother pays for that car quite close to what I pay for each of my bikes that are 8-10 times lighter and have way smaller engines (300cc and 600cc).

Where in Europe is that?

In Ireland, displacement-based taxes were replaced by emission taxes 14 years ago. I think most countries have followed suite.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#185

Easy fix: If you want less of something, tax it. The race to ever bigger vehicles has many costs, from road wear to (now we know) human lives. You pay an annual registration fee for your vehicle. Make that fee go up dramatically for heavier vehicles. If you pay, say, $100 for a car under a ton, make it $1k for up to two tons, $10k for 3 tons, etc..

They know how to avoid this, because heavy autos are considered utility vehicles. They'll claim this is bad for the economy because small companies need access to utility vehicles.

This could simply be avoided by introducing a similar model to how it is handled over here in europe, with different vehicle classes and weight limits, a higher weight class requires a more advanced drivers license. Certain utlilty vehicles 3.5t and over can't be driven here without a D class license, which costs extra, requires extra training and the tax and fee structure for these vehicles is drastically different.

Usually, these heavier vehicles also pay higher toll fees on toll roads like in France, Spain, Austria, Italy, etc. In Austria higher engine power vehicles also cost more on a monthly basis, while registration is a 150€ one time fee, monthly insurance and tax can be around 150€ for a 200hp ice vehicle, even just a Ford Fiesta.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars damage infrastructure in proportion to the fourth power of axle load. Not only are people in big cars killing people in little cars, they're also HEAVILY subsidized by the people they kill. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

Because that function is so convex, almost all of the cumulative damage to roads is done by lorries, buses and fuel trucks. Cars, even big ones, are negligible compared to the fourth power of bus weight.

Those vehicles typically have many more axles and double-wide wheels to distribute the load.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#187
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us actively hate big cars for daily use and are angered at the "SUV" (usually neither sport nor utility) unithink forced on us, and are frustrated how hard it is to find anything different. I want basically an electric Miata for around town, can't get one. I also want an actual utility vehicle with a long, solid, roof rack to haul a canoe or sheet of plywood. SUV roof racks are usually token, if at all. A pla…

Your comment shows how bad car culture is. You think you're the enlightened one, but you want an electric sports car for getting "around town"? People should be walking or cycling around town. Cars are actively harmful to towns. Cars have led to generations of people who don't realise they are capable of walking further than a few steps between car and building. A kind of learned helplessness. When you step outside o…

I fully agree and look forward to being down modded like you due to lazy people.

The only people who live in Cities that should be allowed to use cars are the ones with very real health issues and businesses that transport real physical products to heavy or large to carry.

Plus, no Trucks with trailers should be allowed in any city.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#188
post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

"Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants.."

Only if the other vehicle is smaller/lighter. SUVs were relatively uncommon when this perception of safety was established. Its now just something people like to tell themselves as justification for buying an even bigger car.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#189

This was all caused by the CAFE emissions standards that allow cars with bigger footprints to emit more. Nobody wants bigger trucks, and in the Tacoma community it's a standard refrain to bemoan just how fucking big they've gotten. They aren't compact trucks anymore. They're midsize today. Compact trucks do not exist.

I miss the days where PickUps were the size of the Fiat Strada and didn't have a turning radius of an Abrams M1 battle tank.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#190
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People should be walking or cycling around town. This. Is a very out of touch opinion. I could write 20 paragraphs disagreeing, but I doubt it is worth my time to write or anyone else’s to read. Not every person is able-bodied enough to walk and bike. Also, people happen to need to get from A to B when it is cold, dark, raining, extremely hot, snowing, or just some kind of shitty outside. People need to drive to a…

So you think most people are incapable of walking or cycling? And you're saying I'm out of touch?! As for cold, dark, raining. Boo fucking hoo. If you had to go somewhere you'd deal with it. Cars have made people into weak, incapable little creatures. It's honestly pathetic. I cycle with food and supplies in my panniers all the time. What exactly are you buying every week that can't be transported back without fossil…

> As for cold, dark, raining. Boo fucking hoo. If you had to go somewhere you'd deal with it. Cars have made people into weak, incapable little creatures. It's honestly pathetic.

You clearly have no respect for Mother Nature if this is your stance. Take care.

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