Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 429 posts

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#141

Post by [deleted] »

globular-toast wrote: post #66
imglorp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us actively hate big cars for daily use and are angered at the "SUV" (usually neither sport nor utility) unithink forced on us, and are frustrated how hard it is to find anything different. I want basically an electric Miata for around town, can't get one. I also want an actual utility vehicle with a long, solid, roof rack to haul a canoe or sheet of plywood. SUV roof racks are usually token, if at all. A pla…

Your comment shows how bad car culture is. You think you're the enlightened one, but you want an electric sports car for getting "around town"? People should be walking or cycling around town. Cars are actively harmful to towns. Cars have led to generations of people who don't realise they are capable of walking further than a few steps between car and building. A kind of learned helplessness. When you step outside o…

[deleted]

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#142

Post by nothercastle »

blueelephanttea wrote: post #99
tqi wrote: post #32

One thing that surprised me is that when the article talks about "big cars", I had initially assumed they meant the ubiquitous family crossover SUVs (RAV4 / CRV and the like) that have more or less completely replaced the family sedans. However the curb weight of those vehicles is more or less the same as sedans (all hovering around 3K lbs). What they actually meant is essentially just heavy duty pickup trucks, which…

Yeah. The categories seem to be: - Compact cars (rare) -

I didn’t realize that the RAV was so unsafely light. I thought it would be a more respectable 4500 lb at least.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#143

Post by Eumenes »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #44
dionian wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a heavier car is actually safer to put me and my loved ones inside, at least for now.

Sounds like it's safest for me and my family to physically prevent you from doing that. See how deranged this line of escalation is? How sick in the soul I would have to be to choose to harm your family to increase the safety of mine? Can you see what kind of world you're building when you advocate this?

> How sick in the soul I would have to be to choose to harm your family to increase the safety of mine?

First of all, this is human nature 101. Secondly, simply owning a large vehicle does not equate to 'harming your family'. Bad/impaired drivers are responsible for that. Any other inanimate objects people shouldn't own because you don't like them? People aren't going to simply put their families in Fiat's with Escalade's on the road to show solidarity with the "we need smaller cars" movement.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#144

Post by rzz3 »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #44
dionian wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a heavier car is actually safer to put me and my loved ones inside, at least for now.

Sounds like it's safest for me and my family to physically prevent you from doing that. See how deranged this line of escalation is? How sick in the soul I would have to be to choose to harm your family to increase the safety of mine? Can you see what kind of world you're building when you advocate this?

It sounds like the safest thing for you and your family is to buy a heavier car also. You’re also not literally making that choice between someone else’s family and your own. How many people have you killed while driving? Me, zero, after decades of driving. My parents are well into their old age, have driven heavy cars their whole lives, and still haven’t killed anyone. In fact, out of many people I’ve known, with all shapes and sizes of car, the only one (as far as I’m aware) who killed someone was drunk, and drove a small sports car very fast and killed someone.

To be fair to your argument, you _are_ talking about a “line of escalation” and an issue with a lot of moral complexity. I’m not even saying you’re wrong, rather just that I think you can’t view it so simply. Do you have kids or a husband or a wife? Could you _really_ put their own lives before strangers, or do you just want to see a world where people give more compassion to their fellow human? Because I want that too; I’m just not willing to sacrifice my loved ones for it.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#145

Post by coliveira »

abhay37 wrote: post #12
ur-whale wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do differently if you owned a dealership ?

All prices of all components are listed, thus I have no reason to hire salesmen. You pick the components as if you are building a PC. There is a huge demand for this, and the savings from fewer middlemen can go elsewhere. Of course there are several laws and policies on national and statewide levels enshrining the current anti-consumer model because it "creates jobs".

Salesmen are not an expense, they're a profit center. Every company knows this. They will sell more expensive cars and increase the dealer's profit, that's why this model persists.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#146

Post by coliveira »

sheepdestroyer wrote: post #27
ur-whale wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do differently if you owned a dealership ?

What's the added value of dealerships? They feel like parasites. The mere idea of having to negotiate prices like in an flea market is disturbing and disgusting to me. I want to be treated fairly and as well as the next guy. Fixed & open construtor prices and warranties, online customisation and ordering should be the only norm.

Dealerships are owned by rich people and they contribute a lot of money to local politicians. That's why they won't go away even though they are nothing but parasites.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#147

Post by eyelidlessness »

tootie wrote: post #56
xwall wrote: post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

Any politician saying we should limit motor vehicle size would committing career suicide. That would be a slam dunk wedge issue for Republicans.

You’re not wrong. But only because Democrats are terrible at messaging (and seem allergic to getting better at it). “We’ll get you needlessly dead for our own power” isn’t exactly a popular policy position if someone is willing to call it what it is.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#148

Post by Groxx »

dataflow wrote: post #47
xwall wrote: post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

> Carmakers prioritize consumer preferences over safety: Manufacturers are producing increasingly heavier vehicles, driven by consumer demand for larger, more powerful cars, despite the safety risks to others. That is prioritizing safety - of the very customers themselves, whose preferences very much do include safety! Sounds like the market functioning exactly as designed. And sounds like we need regulation here.

Is a near ideal example of why free markets can lead to a worse overall result, yeah. Everyone wants to be individually safer, this is all a reasonable trajectory brought on by incremental steps in that direction.

We desperately need regulation. The market won't turn itself around, it'll just ensure the ones that are helping are killed the quickest.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#149

Post by coliveira »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #22
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

I think there’s a lot of truth to this. Relatedly, it’s infuriating that American manufacturers are only interested in developing expensive, large, luxury EVs. We slapped a 100% tariff on cheap Chinese EVs… but our domestic companies refuse to develop a $20,000 compact EV! The cost of new cars in the US is insane. As is the protectionism of the industry. Give me cheap Japanese/Korean cars plzkthx.

The whole idea behind tariffs on Chinese products is that cheap prices will NOT be tolerated. The US is stuck with expensive cars for the foreseeable future.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#150

Post by coliveira »

occz wrote: post #90
ordu wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'd guess bigger cars lead to bigger road wear and tear, with all the consequences for the taxpayer and the environment.

For a country so profoundly claiming to be in favour of free market economics, the U.S sure does love its system of socialism for motor vehicles.

It is socialism for the rich, capitalism for everyone else.
Post reply on HN