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Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

economist.com

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Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#111

Post by doubled112 »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #38
zug_zug wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally I'm having trouble finding certain small cars in stock (e.g. crown platinum) and suspect there is some self-interest in the dealership to explains this. I think car-buyers are often under an illusion that an suv is "more car" when actually it's exact same components and just a larger frame. They'd much prefer to sell you the high-margin product and pocket the difference.

Just googled that car and apprently it’s nearly 5 meters long, longer than a BMW 3 Series, it’s funny that’s considered a small car over there because that’d be considered a big one over here (not even mid-sized). Over here: small is anything from a Smart to a Renault Twingo/Ford Fiesta/VW Polo. Medium: VW Golf, Ford Focus. Large: anything bigger than medium.

I’ve had this conversation with many people before.

When I had my first son, we upgraded from a Chevy Aveo5 to a Ford Focus.

Everybody told me it was still much too small for a couple with a child.

It’s a family sedan anywhere except North America. Go away.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#112

Post by michaelt »

croes wrote: post #9
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

Seems like the market isn't working.

I have heard it claimed this happened because:

1. Lawmakers put an import tax on trucks, and (perhaps not entirely intentionally) made emission standards for SUVs lower than those for cars.

2. US automakers were getting their ass kicked by foreign imports that were much better made in the car segment, but not in the SUV and truck segment.

3. US automakers decided to heavily promote trucks and SUVs, the segments they were most competitive in. You know, pay to make sure all the characters in that TV show are driving SUVs and whatnot.

4. Lawmakers decided to maintain the state of affairs from 1 because they like US automakers.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#113

Post by marcosdumay »

ordu wrote: post #65
OutOfHere wrote: post #39

It's not just the kill rate. It's also how much more toxic tire dust pollution the heavier vehicles put out.

And I'd guess bigger cars lead to bigger road wear and tear, with all the consequences for the taxpayer and the environment.

> I'd guess bigger cars lead to bigger road wear and tear

Yep. To the 3rd or 4th power, depending on where exactly you measure it.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#114

Post by skeeter2020 »

huuhee3 wrote: post #87
throwtex wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Lots of countries beyond Western world have growing middle class and rich people with big carbon footprint. Framing it just a Western issue is very outdated.

...and also inaccurate. The two western countries in the top 10 for CO2 emmissions are USA (#2) and Germany (#8). Per Capita there are none, with many of the "poor little countries" we're supposedly destroying represented.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#115

Post by kbolino »

roughly wrote: post #63
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

As folks elsewhere have noted, CAFE standards make "light" trucks substantially more profitable than other cars, and so yes, car makers have pushed them aggressively, including with strong marketing campaigns for the last 20 years or so. All of the arguments from car manufacturers that they're just "answering consumer demand" ignores the point that they manufactured that demand. Change the tax structures and incentiv…

CAFE has two problems. The first, as you've mentioned, is the suspect bifurcation of the standards between regular cars and "light trucks".

The second problem is that the footprint-based formulas used within a category do not reflect the practical utility of the vehicles and let larger cars off easier.

A high-roof compact car like the Honda Fit can comfortably carry 5 people and opens up quite well for transporting a lot of stuff. Because it's small and light, it gets great gas mileage especially on the highway. Yet it's penalized by CAFE because it has a small footprint and so is expected to get unrealistically high fuel economy.

Whereas, a larger sedan like the Honda Civic can also carry 5 people (with some more amenities) but has a paltry trunk that can't be used to transport much more than grocery bags. Even as a hatchback, the roof is a lot lower than in the Fit, so it can transport larger items like furniture, but only if they're flat. Yet it scores better on CAFE because its larger footprint allows it to have more realistic fuel economy.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#116

Post by alborzb »

Tanoc wrote: post #59
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

This is true to a ridiculous extent. Ford has no compact hatchback or sedan in the U.S., only the Brazilian built EcoSport. They killed all their cars in favour of CUVs and SUVs. Chevrolet no longer has the Sonic, having nixed those in 2022. Honda no longer has the Fit as of two years ago. Mitsubishi no longer sells the Mirage as of last month. Dodge hasn't had anything since the Dart died in 2016. The Jeep Renegade'…

>>Ford has no compact hatchback or sedan in the U.S., only the Brazilian built EcoSport. They killed all their cars in favour of CUVs and SUVs.

Have I got some bad news for you... It seems the EcoSport is also dead ( https://www.ford.com/suvs-crossovers/ecosport/ )

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#117

Post by OutOfHere »

hmottestad wrote: post #53
OutOfHere wrote: post #39

It's not just the kill rate. It's also how much more toxic tire dust pollution the heavier vehicles put out.

Tires today contain a large amount of plastics. So what you are breathing while walking next to a road with a bunch of Teslas driving down it is basically a cloud of microplastics.

It's worse than regular microplastics. It's 6PPD which is N-(1,3-dimethylbutyl)-N'-phenyl-p-phenylenediamine, a lethal non-plastic amine.

Moreover, this chemical has been accumulating in the environment, and making its way into food, so we're not just breathing it, but eating it too. Refer to DOI 10.3389/fenvs.2024.1384506

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#118

Post by Spooky23 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #26
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

> walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock of new ones of the model you want because the factory washed out in a flood Are you making this up?

Totally real.

Post-COVID especially car dealers will make up all sorts of nonsense. Try to buy a base Civic or Corolla. They’ll literally run off and hide.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#119

Post by treis »

bilegeek wrote: post #18
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They'd much prefer to sell you the high-margin product The obvious answer to the entire scenario. There's no reason to go looking for hidden reasons: it's in plain sight.

Part of that high margin is because emissions and fuel economy laws are looser for truck-like vehicles, so they make everything a truck-like vehicle to avoid having to comply.

The difference in gas mileage between SUVs and sedans is pretty negligible these days. They're mostly just cars with a different body style. And for the most part they're just flat better which is why they've mostly supplanted cars in the market.

It's really trucks that have gotten stupidly big these days.

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