Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#71

Post by loeg » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 6:45 PM UTC

xwall wrote: post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

> Regulators are ill-equipped to address the issue: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's rating system focuses on occupant safety, not the safety of other road users, and tax policies subsidize heavier vehicles.

Ill-equipped, or asleep at the wheel? NHTSA could extend their rating system to incorporate the safety of people outside the tested vehicle, but have failed to.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#72

Post by coliveira » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 6:45 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

The media has a sick tendency to attribute to individual choice situations that are clearly caused by powerful people benefiting from other people's misfortunes. For example, young workers cannot afford houses, becomes "generation XYZ doesn't WANT to buy homes". Workers cannot find good paying jobs becomes "people don't WANT to work anymore"; and so much BS like that we see everyday in our media.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#73

Post by dataflow » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 6:47 PM UTC

niemandhier wrote: post #61

giraffe_lady wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it's safest for me and my family to physically prevent you from doing that. See how deranged this line of escalation is? How sick in the soul I would have to be to choose to harm your family to increase the safety of mine? Can you see what kind of world you're building when you advocate this?

Well put. The extrem version is a world where everybody is expected to kill the people in the other car that killed a loved one, nullifying every advantage that choosing your own safety over another’s might have.

> Well put. The extreme version is a world where everybody is expected to kill

This is a pretty bad argument, the extreme doesn't necessarily define the middle. The extreme version of free speech is a world where fraud is legal. The extreme version of fire safety is a building with openings everywhere so there's no need for doors. The extreme version of policing is having cops follow you everywhere, including into your house. You can't just reason like that.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#74

Post by loeg » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 6:47 PM UTC

Tanoc wrote: post #59

PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

This is true to a ridiculous extent. Ford has no compact hatchback or sedan in the U.S., only the Brazilian built EcoSport. They killed all their cars in favour of CUVs and SUVs. Chevrolet no longer has the Sonic, having nixed those in 2022. Honda no longer has the Fit as of two years ago. Mitsubishi no longer sells the Mirage as of last month. Dodge hasn't had anything since the Dart died in 2016. The Jeep Renegade'…

> [Ford] killed all their cars in favour of CUVs and SUVs.

They still sell one car -- the Mustang.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#75

Post by roughly » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 6:47 PM UTC

xwall wrote: post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

> Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists.

I'm actually curious how much of this danger is primarily to pedestrians and cyclists. On the margins, I'd expect in a crash a 6000lb vehicle with modern safety equipment to be safer than a 3000lb vehicle with modern safety equipment, but folks have crashed modern sports cars at triple-digit speeds and (literally) walked away.

For a pedestrian or cyclist, though, getting hit by a large truck or SUV is a different story, primarily because the shape and frontal area are so much larger, and the collision rates are higher because visibility and vehicle control are much worse than smaller cars.

I'm also curious how much of the perceived safety benefit of larger cars is offset by the reduced ability to control the vehicle - in other words, I'm curious what the per-capita crash rates are in SUVs compared to normal cars.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#76

Post by coliveira » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 6:49 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

Let's not even talk about the fact that car prices are bordering on a national scam. They will list a certain model at price X, but that is only the price of the base configuration that is never on stock. Add to this all the fees that are practically impossible to escape, and car prices are always 50% or more higher than advertised.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#77

Post by jasonmarks_ » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 6:49 PM UTC

> In total, our dataset includes millions of crashes across 14 states between 2013 and 2023.

A great source of data for this topic is the Fatality and Injury Reporting System Tool (FIRST) [a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration product]. Link: https://cdan.dot.gov/query

It has more data (covers all states) although VIN numbers do not appear to be in the dataset.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#78

Post by throwtex » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 6:49 PM UTC

xwall wrote: post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

[flagged]

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#79

Post by kotaKat » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 6:50 PM UTC

Tanoc wrote: post #59

PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

This is true to a ridiculous extent. Ford has no compact hatchback or sedan in the U.S., only the Brazilian built EcoSport. They killed all their cars in favour of CUVs and SUVs. Chevrolet no longer has the Sonic, having nixed those in 2022. Honda no longer has the Fit as of two years ago. Mitsubishi no longer sells the Mirage as of last month. Dodge hasn't had anything since the Dart died in 2016. The Jeep Renegade'…

To even add more embarrassingly for Ford:

https://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/

The "Explore All Sedan Vehicles" button links to the "Ford SUVs" section.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#80

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 6:50 PM UTC

tinyhouse wrote: post #25

It's not a love affair. Once there are large vehicles on the road, you cannot afford putting yourself at greater risk by not having a large vehicle yourself.

Is that necessarily true? There are no smaller vehicles with overbuilt frames, more airbags, and better test rating?

I look under the hood of "large" trucks and sometimes it's a lot of empty space. It looks like a paper tiger- it's fake big. I've also read somewhere that taller vehicles have a higher chance of rollover which could make them less safe than advertised.