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Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

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741–750 of 855 posts

Re: Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

#741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you think censorship will solve this? A media company being punished isn't censorship , media companies aren't above the law.

> A media company Text from the 1st amendment: "or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press" You see that part that says "The press"? Thats what a media company is. Yes, if the government punishes "The press" for its speech, and threatens it with legal action, that is by definition something that effects free speech and is censorship. Definitionally, I cannot think of something that could be more accurately b…

> Yes, if the government punishes "The press" for its speech

That wasn't the case, the case was "the press" covering criminals. Being the press don't give a company free pass to commit crimes and Xitter is paying for that.

PS: "1st amendment" is an American term that doesn't mean anything outside of american jurisdiction (and maybe not even inside, see Tiktok).

Re: Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

#742
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The don't call it protest either. They call it attack and invasion. The reason why it isn't called a coup is be cause they failed. And it's not the ministry of truth but multiple independent sources in and outside Brazil. At a certain point something is obviously fake. And if it's spreading violence it reached the limit of free speech.

> attack and invasion Aren't all protests? I don't remember many protests that didn't involve closing down roads, burning things down and whatnot. Protests that don't do things like that are usually so irrelevant they don't get Wikipedia articles written about them. > The reason why it isn't called a coup is be cause they failed. It's not called a coup because it wasn't one. A coup attempt would be the military seizi…

>Aren't all protests? I don't remember many protests that didn't involve closing down roads, burning things down and whatnot. Protests that don't do things like that are usually so irrelevant they don't get Wikipedia articles written about them.

Most protests are peaceful and even the violent one rarely invade government buildings. Whole different level.

>It's not called a coup because it wasn't one. A coup attempt would be the military seizing power by force. You know, the people with guns and tanks. A successful coup would be the military trying and succeeding.

It doesn't have to be the military. Most coups are by the military but it's not a necessity

>There's simply no way you can claim a bunch of people, many of them elderly, equipped with bibles and flags, amounts to a coup attempt.

No, but for a bunch of people who throw pickaxes and hammers at the police I can.

>None of which have the power to censor anything. As it should be.

That's the road to tyranny. Lies spread faster than the truth.

>If it's so obviously fake, then you don't need any censorship either. The fakeness will be self-evident.

Sadly some people fall for obvious fakes. Just look at all the flat earthers.

Re: Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

#743

I think banning any network that allows citizens to air their views, whatever they may be, is very dangerous. Free speech that is free of control is essential. I also think that anyone, especially someone prone to childish tantrums like Musk, having unquestionable control of a major network on which citizens can air their views, is also very dangerous. Free speech that is free of control is essential.

Twitter isn’t a network where anyone can air their views. Elon regularly takes punitive action to mark links that criticize him as containing malware, has accounts banned that post evidence of his misdeeds, etc.

We have a network where you can post what you want to say. It’s called the World Wide Web.

Re: Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

#744
post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are various accounts on Twitter which were being investigated etc. for criminal misconduct, Twitter was given a court order to block those accounts. I have no idea if that order was itself justified (IANAL and I don't speak Brazilian) but the orders were given by someone with authority to give them. Twitter refused the order, which means that Twitter is interfering with the legal process in Brazil. This sounds…

I can't think of any country I'd consider having a strong rule of law that would start arresting employees for the actions of their companies that they themselves have no say in. Effectively, the judge makes it impossible for X to defend itself in court because he'll just have anyone arrested who tries. That's not something you'll find in the developed world these days.

> Effectively, the judge makes it impossible for X to defend itself in court because he'll just have anyone arrested who tries.

No, on two counts.

First, Twitter is free to seek out a lawyer to represent them in court. Most people hire lawyers for contract work rather than as a permanent employee, so this remains possible even with no assets within Brazil.

Second, there was nothing to be defended until they refused to comply with the lawfully given order within the required deadline.

That they chose to fire their staff member and close the office in order to prevent compliance with the lawfully given order, was an actual offence in its own right. To my limited understanding, it is also an offence in its own right to refuse a lawfully given court order. But in both cases, Twitter was not being punished until they actually broke the law.

Courts in the UK and the USA may issue an injunction, both to prohibit and/or to compel an action, and this may bind on people not directly before the court:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injunction (note in particular that interim injunctions may be given prior to a ruling on the case itself)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injunctions_in_English_law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interim_order

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quia_timet

And, pertinently to Starlink: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_freezing

Compare and contrast Twitter in Brazil with Lavabit in the USA: Lavabit was ordered to provide certain information in secret (with an injunction to not talk about it); they protested, they first provided that information in an obtuse form that was considered contempt, they provided it in a form which was acceptable, then they closed their business in response and took further legal action in response to what they — and, to be clear, I — consider to have been a manner incompatible with the public view of American Democracy:

"""Levison said that he could be arrested for closing the site instead of releasing the information, and it was reported that the federal prosecutor's office had sent Levison's lawyer an email to that effect."""

and

"""Levison wrote that after being contacted by the FBI, he was subpoenaed to appear in federal court, and was forced to appear without legal representation because it was served on such short notice; in addition, as a third party, he had no right to representation, and was not allowed to ask anyone who was not an attorney to help find him one. He also wrote that in addition to being denied a hearing about the warrant to obtain Lavabit's user information, he was held in contempt of court. The appellate court denied his appeal due to no objection, however, he wrote that because there had been no hearing, no objection could have been raised. His contempt of court charge was also upheld on the ground that it was not disputed; similarly, he was unable to dispute the charge because there had been no hearing to do it in."""

Re: Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

#745
post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, true. But the problem is that Musk, rich has he is, can't run Twitter indefinitely without revenue (more than he's getting today, and it's likely declining). He needs it to perform financially if it's to continue to be a going concern.

He's going the other route - lower costs. He got rid of the overwhelming majority of staff, moved (or is moving?) the HQ out of San Francisco and California - meaning lower costs + lower tax, and so on. So while revenue has decreased, so have costs. In later 2023 he stated that it was expected for Twitter to be profitable early in 2024. Given there was no follow up announcement I doubt this goal was achieved, but it…

And you believe him? The guy who took out loans to finance the purchase of the company, which drain the company of $1.5 billion a year? I’ve got some oceanside property to sell you.

Re: Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

#746
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk's lawyers "describing" something isn't evidence. Given Musk's personality, I would not be the tiniest bit surprised if he's suing without any actual evidence, just because he's angry and because he can. I mean, remember, this is the guy who tried to get out of buying Twitter, and then refused to pay out contractually-obligated packages to many of the former management team he fired. (I'm not the biggest fan in t…

Sorry, but I'm saddened by about how far people are willing to go to dislike Musk. As far as I am concerned, his contributions to the US, society, and the future via Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink, etc., dwarf his various foibles. P.S. if the pay packages were contractually obligated, then the courts would have forced him to pay them. Courts are generally pretty biased in favor of employees when they sue their employer. P.…

Yeah, I love living in a society where money is diverted from public infrastructure like railroads into fake vacuum-tube con jobs and tunnels that hold more cars. I love living next to unreliable cars that drive into traffic and catch on fire. I’m happy when rocket launches destroy local ecosystems with concrete waste and toxic pollution. Elon has really done so much for humanity.

Re: Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

#747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Musk doesn't care about free speech, he is actively and eagerly suppressing it as well, just for the other team.

Yes, no one is truly "unbiased" or without opinions. This is not new. But giving the "other team" a voice (my team, in some ways) is valuable, and we aren't going to give it up easily. And please, don't point to the fact that there are right-wing loons on Twitter, because there are crazies from all sides all over the internet.

>we aren't going to give it up easily.

Sure, I get that. Just stop pretending that it's about principle, then!

Re: Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

#748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

X has just started sharing all of them in response. https://x.com/alexandrefiles/status/1829979981130416479?s=46...

Rather someone on Twitter shared some text - these aren’t the original court orders - they are at best a paraphrase by someone with a certain agenda.

Full orders are being shared as well.

https://x.com/AlexandreFiles/status/1829980105567059997

They are doing a daily dump.

Re: Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

#749
post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the late 1990s there were still medical scientists who questioned the causal link between HIV and AIDS This is how science works. Being right is not "science". Science is verb. If the questioners were right we would be calling them heroes.

I said as much in my comment, pointing out that these scientists with differing takes were not the bad guys: “These scientists believed they were asking reasonable questions and pointing out potential inaccuracies.” The bad guys were the people who took this receding debate within the field as evidence of conspiracies and worse, and convinced thousands of people to treat their AIDS condition with quackery instead of…

Well with climate change we have no scientists saying otherwise because we see they get attacked and lose funding by the quackery of the public and governments. As evident by the idiots on HN.

Re: Brazil's X ban is sending lots of people to Bluesky

#750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering a ton of podcasts talk about it and they're not in the tech bubble I'd say it's a pretty important topic especially in the US.

> Considering a ton of podcasts talk about it and they're not in the tech bubble I'd say it's a pretty important topic especially in the US Yes, like modern art. It’s talked about a lot. But it’s an obsession of a few and irrelevant to most Americans.

I don't know man, I'm not even from the US and I meet a lot of people being concerned about wokeism being imported into our country, do you have any proof of your allegations?
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