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Crows are even smarter than we thought

nautil.us

281–290 of 304 posts

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#281
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should establish that the crow would only 'attack' any human living in this flat (and neglect any other human walking by this back alley).

I’m surprised no one has attempted to train crows for use in asymmetrical warfare. At least before the advent of cheap drones.

Such a human move. Learn something remarkable about nature, next step then is thinking about how to use it for warfare.

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd still be better than cheap drones at remote pick-pocketing - if you could train them to spot and snatch coins and bills. I was wondering about the opposite too. Could you train a crow to watch you throw a marker, say a pebble of specific color, and then fly to the location it landed to perform specific action? Say, if we go for personal mischief instead of warfare: - red marker = find whatever interesting obje…

I suspect they would be difficult to train, because of their attitude. We see this with many wild animals. Dogs train easily, but coyotes and wolves, who are even smarter, are much more difficult to train. One of my favorite nature vignettes, is a part of Planet Earth , by the BBC, about Cape Hunting Dogs[0]. It looks like a military assault. They are really clever, and work well, as a team. But if you could train cr…

Dogs are wolves. All of them.

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#283

We consider this smart and intelligent, but many people don't want to admit that LLMs are intelligent?

I think its because animals are many interconnected systems or models which are made to create "intelligent" behavior, like one for speak one for movement and alike. LLMs are trained purely off text, so they are more similar to a very simple animal that only has one type of inputs and outputs like a worm that only knows where its body is and then where it wants to be. LLMs are also only trained for a short period of…

But you can also give audio and video to multimodal LLMs - although it does become odd to call them LLMs then. And in theory you could give any sensory input data.

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just statistics and bad luck for PM inventors. There are physical reasons arguing strongly that it's impossible.

That's what I said. How are you reading the opposite?

You're right: you said "statistically we never had any luck trying, or by an exhaustive search of all possible perpetual motion machines." as an antithesis.

I took "reasoned to be false" as sort of a weak and refutable statement.

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're not the only intelligent life on earth. We cant even define intelligence or measure it meaningfully. If we can't define or measure intelligence meaningfully, how can you even claim we are 'intelligent' to begin with? > Elephants, crows, dolphins, octopi, chimps, orang utan are all clearly very smart The have levels of intelligence, but they are clearly not very smart. You couldn't even teach them the multipli…

I think your statements are written in a very confident manner that comes across as trying to win, but this is a nuanced question. > how can you even claim we are 'intelligent' to begin with? because I can claim it. You're focusing on semantics and attacking the fact that a set definitions can't be done. I think debating the nature of whether semantics maps to a valid conceptualization is probably not very productive…

[flagged]

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#286

When I was little I had a small bb gun and would shoot cans in the backyard. A couple times i shot a crow and it would bounce off their strong chest and they would fly off seemingly unfazed. One time by pure chance I hit a crow in the neck and it died instantly, crashing down into my neighbor's yard. It was very shocking because I had not killed anything like that before. Immediately crows started circling my parents…

Your parents should have told you not to harm animals for no reason to begin with, and the fact that this isn't the takeaway from this story is frankly very concerning.

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#287

When I was little I had a small bb gun and would shoot cans in the backyard. A couple times i shot a crow and it would bounce off their strong chest and they would fly off seemingly unfazed. One time by pure chance I hit a crow in the neck and it died instantly, crashing down into my neighbor's yard. It was very shocking because I had not killed anything like that before. Immediately crows started circling my parents…

Your parents should have told you not to harm animals for no reason to begin with, and the fact that this isn't the takeaway from this story is frankly very concerning.

> The coordination and the intentional effort they made to disrupt and stop me was something I have never forgotten. This had a big effect on me, I thought of it's family, and how they were trying to protect it. Needless to say I have not shot another bird since.

That was the takeaway.

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect they would be difficult to train, because of their attitude. We see this with many wild animals. Dogs train easily, but coyotes and wolves, who are even smarter, are much more difficult to train. One of my favorite nature vignettes, is a part of Planet Earth , by the BBC, about Cape Hunting Dogs[0]. It looks like a military assault. They are really clever, and work well, as a team. But if you could train cr…

Dogs are wolves. All of them.

The inevitable result: https://cmarshall.com/images/WhatsTheWorst.jpg

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#289

I don’t know why these things are surprising. To me, the assumption that animals can’t do things we later discovered they could do is the surprising thing. Such arrogance we humans have.

Because they have such little brains. When I look at a crow, I think - not much room for brains in there.

What does size have to do with anything? We should not assume that the human brain size to brain capability ratio is the highest in nature, or even that it’s in the top half of all creatures.

Humans are just arrogant and overconfident. We’re an incredibly flawed species and we’ve created incredibly flawed societies.

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its because animals are many interconnected systems or models which are made to create "intelligent" behavior, like one for speak one for movement and alike. LLMs are trained purely off text, so they are more similar to a very simple animal that only has one type of inputs and outputs like a worm that only knows where its body is and then where it wants to be. LLMs are also only trained for a short period of…

But you can also give audio and video to multimodal LLMs - although it does become odd to call them LLMs then. And in theory you could give any sensory input data.

You could, and I do think that the more ways they have to get input the more "alive" they will be, but my point in freezing the model in time and then just running inference on it still stands.
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