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Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

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Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#81

Post by gruez »

dylan604 wrote: post #73
gruez wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Very much this. Towing by the police should only be something done when the car is in violation of something. If the police has a search warrant for your home and you're not there, they can break in, even if you're not "in violation of something". I don't see how this is any different.

I don't have to make arrangements to go get my home when it is searched. Also, if you're searching my house, more than likely, I'm directly involved in something. They don't break into my house to get my Ring footage, which is much more equivalent in your attempt equating these disparate concepts. You've now made an innocent civilian incur ridiculous fees to get their car out of impound when there was no reason to im…

>I don't have to make arrangements to go get my home when it is searched

They could however, break your door (if you're not there to let them in), and AFAIK they're not responsible for getting it fixed.

>Also, if you're searching my house, more than likely, I'm directly involved in something.

That's irrelevant. The standard for a search warrant is "probable cause" regardless.

>They don't break into my house to get my Ring footage, which is much more equivalent in your attempt equating these disparate concepts.

...because the ring footage isn't in your house, it's in the cloud. Moreover, if you have an on-premise system and you're on vacation or something, it's plausible that they get a search warrant and break in, especially if they think time is of the essence (eg. your system has limited retention and the footage is going to be wiped).

>You could just as easily boot the car and wait for the owner to return.

If you read the article the police claims that it's only used if they can't locate the owner. It's unclear what that exactly means, but it's not like they're towing every tesla near the crime scene.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#82

Post by dylan604 »

gruez wrote: post #81
dylan604 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have to make arrangements to go get my home when it is searched. Also, if you're searching my house, more than likely, I'm directly involved in something. They don't break into my house to get my Ring footage, which is much more equivalent in your attempt equating these disparate concepts. You've now made an innocent civilian incur ridiculous fees to get their car out of impound when there was no reason to im…

>I don't have to make arrangements to go get my home when it is searched They could however, break your door (if you're not there to let them in), and AFAIK they're not responsible for getting it fixed. >Also, if you're searching my house, more than likely, I'm directly involved in something. That's irrelevant. The standard for a search warrant is "probable cause" regardless. >They don't break into my house to get my…

"If you read the article" is such a lame comment. In other comments in this thread, I've literally quoted the article. How in the world could I have pulled a quote without reading the article.

It's clear you and I have polar opposite sentiments regarding this. So I'll leave it here as you are quite tiresome

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#83

Post by IncreasePosts »

tamimio wrote: post #67
IncreasePosts wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear to me how you can claim most of these drivers don't have insurance. Also. Nothing is stopping Karen's from reporting things right now. So what if they do? If you've done nothing wrong then the reviewer would just trash it. And probably put Karen's reports in the "immediately discard" pile in the future if she sends in frivolous claims all the time.

I watched dashcam videos, and most times after accidents, it turned out that there is no insurance or, worse, wrong insurance information is given, only to be found later that it’s fake. Obviously, this is not real statistics, but something I observed. > nothing is stopping Karens from reporting things True, but when you provide a platform for that, you incentivize the behavior. As mentioned below, you might start ge…

And likewise, you might get points deducted for wasting the reviewers time with a frivolous submission.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#84

Post by ralferoo »

gruez wrote: post #72
ralferoo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be setting a new precedent though. I'm making assumptions here, but I'd have thought that search warrants were historically used at locations where the suspect lived / worked / frequented. Even at premises not owned by the suspect, the police turning up and requiring all the security footage doesn't deprive the premise owner of anything. Towing away an innocent law-abiding citizen's car for a matter entire…

>This might be setting a new precedent though. I'm making assumptions here, but I'd have thought that search warrants were historically used at locations where the suspect lived / worked / frequented. Search warrants exist to give police access to evidence when there's probable cause. Often times this is "at locations where the suspect lived / worked / frequented", but there's nothing in the jurisprudence that limits…

> They can and do break into premises

That's fair enough to some extent. Not sure about the US, but in the UK they are also responsible for re-securing the access point when they leave, and I believe you can claim compensation for the repair work. Presumably also, if there were any thefts while the property was in this vulnerable state, the insurance company would sue the police to try to reclaim the money paid out to cover the loss.

Taking someone's primary mode of transport, perhaps their only viable option, is a whole order of magnitude worse than breaking into a property to carry out a search warrant. For someone who's not even a suspect, or in any way connected, it's a massive violation of their rights.

> only tow the car if they can't contact the owner, which seems consistent with that

To be honest, it seems unlikely they'd easily be able to contact the owner, unless it happens to be parked outside their own residence. And the flip side of them not being able to contact the owner to ask permission is that the owner has absolutely no idea where their car is, and they only find out it's missing when they need it most. And probably not in an area they'd like to hang around too long in, if there's just been a homicide near there.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#86

Post by jrflowers »

rbalicki wrote: post #6

Genuine question: What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? If even a small subset of users did this, and insurers did something with this information, it would substantially dis…

> What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company?

What has stopped you from doing that personally?

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#87

Post by kylehotchkiss »

pbohun wrote: post #36

We've seen this type of thing happen with Ring, where the police want video from people's private cameras. Do police have the legal right to access/take people's private property like this? I thought the 4th amendment of the constitution protected against unreasonable searches and seizures?

If it’s my outdoor cameras and it pertains to a crime that happened just outside my home, they can have the footage. A very practical contribution I can make to my neighborhoods safety

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#88

Post by ThunderSizzle »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #60
0xcafefood wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would probably have "disproportionate impact." It's really the job of police forces to act on maniac drivers. And they stopped doing so in 2020 for the same reason.

Disproportionate impact is already acceptable with insurance, because they know for example that the average young woman drives safer than the average young man. And charges them as such.

[flagged]

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#89

Post by porphyra »

jrflowers wrote: post #86
rbalicki wrote: post #6

Genuine question: What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? If even a small subset of users did this, and insurers did something with this information, it would substantially dis…

> What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? What has stopped you from doing that personally?

Nobody has developed that yet and OP might not have the skills to do so, but if an easy-to-install github repo were available then the lowered barrier to entry might make it possible. Theoretically, Teslas already know how fast every car around them is going and how they are driving, as evidenced by the 3D "FSD visualization", but I am guessing that piping this information out to rat out the reckless drivers is going to be super hard.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#90

Post by morkalork »

rbalicki wrote: post #6

Genuine question: What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? If even a small subset of users did this, and insurers did something with this information, it would substantially dis…

Where I live, speeding and red light cameras can only issue fines to the plate holder and don't affect the demerit points of the driver because they don't have evidence of who was driving the vehicle. I imagine it would go the same way with insurance. Unless a cop pulls the person over and gets their ID, tough luck.
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