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Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

sfchronicle.com

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Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#41

Post by zer00eyz »

rbalicki wrote: post #6

Genuine question: What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? If even a small subset of users did this, and insurers did something with this information, it would substantially dis…

Why would they need to do this when the car makers give them all the data they want already?

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driv...

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#42

Post by paulryanrogers »

andylynch wrote: post #37
rbalicki wrote: post #6

Genuine question: What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? If even a small subset of users did this, and insurers did something with this information, it would substantially dis…

Insurers may not be the best recipients given most of those things are criminal matters. In my country, most police forces accept dashcam evidence from other road users, and will prosecute on it. It’s seen be the police as a great road safety tool.

Is there a risk such video could be fabricated to frame someone for a crime they didn't commit, or even that never happened?

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#43

Post by [deleted] »

pbohun wrote: post #36

We've seen this type of thing happen with Ring, where the police want video from people's private cameras. Do police have the legal right to access/take people's private property like this? I thought the 4th amendment of the constitution protected against unreasonable searches and seizures?

[deleted]

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#44

Post by gruez »

croes wrote: post #30
rbalicki wrote: post #6

Genuine question: What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? If even a small subset of users did this, and insurers did something with this information, it would substantially dis…

Next step, we all wear body cams and they identify people with inappropriate behavior. For every mistake you get a point and with enough point a punishment. Sounds familiar.

I mean, that already kinda happens today? Everyone carries a camera in their pocket, and public freakouts are recorded and posted on the internet, leading to social consequences for the person in question.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#45

Post by 23B1 »

rbalicki wrote: post #6

Genuine question: What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? If even a small subset of users did this, and insurers did something with this information, it would substantially dis…

Great question.

There is nothing stopping them.

Which is why a privacy amendment must be passed and enforced with ruthless abandon if we don't want to pave the way for – and eventually become – an Orwellian panopticon in the service of authoritarians.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#46

Post by dylan604 »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #12
gruez wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This makes me _not_ want to get a Tesla, just to avoid the inconvenience of getting my car towed because of what it _might_ have inside of it. From the article: >Therriault said he and other officers now frequently seek video from bystander Teslas, and usually get the owners’ consent to download it without having to serve a warrant. Still, he said, tows are sometimes necessary, if police can’t locate a Tesla owner a…

The fact that they're doing it at all is completely unacceptable.

Very much this. Towing by the police should only be something done when the car is in violation of something. I did not see anything about the expense of retrieving the car. You took the person's car so there is definite expense of getting there. Did you force the person to miss a flight, a meeting, a date? WTF do these people think they are so above and beyond rational thought is ridiculous.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#47

Post by xattt »

rbalicki wrote: post #6

Genuine question: What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? If even a small subset of users did this, and insurers did something with this information, it would substantially dis…

ALPR units are used the license plate recognition already.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#48

Post by snozolli »

gruez wrote: post #28
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that they're doing it at all is completely unacceptable.

Search warrants have existed forever, and allowed police to compel production of certain evidence. This includes breaking into residences or offices. I don't see how towing a car is any different. Unless you think search warrants themselves are "completely unacceptable", I don't see how towing teslas should be singled out.

I don't see how towing a car is any different

Before modern FISA courts, we generally had faith that a search warrant was warranted, based upon other investigation. From what the article said, this sounds more like a "fishing expedition".

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#49

Post by brvsft »

gruez wrote: post #39
pbohun wrote: post #36

We've seen this type of thing happen with Ring, where the police want video from people's private cameras. Do police have the legal right to access/take people's private property like this? I thought the 4th amendment of the constitution protected against unreasonable searches and seizures?

>Do police have the legal right to access/take people's private property like this? I thought the 4th amendment of the constitution protected against unreasonable searches and seizures? Search warrants specifically exist to give police the "legal right to access/take people's private property", and are widely accepted to be constitutional.

You pretend this is some obvious fact, but obtaining a search warrant against a person or property that were uninvolved in the crime but may have only been 'witness' to it is not obvious or clear to me.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#50

Post by CamperBob2 »

freejazz wrote: post #38
CamperBob2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most cases, it's a devil's brew of "Speed limits that are set too low" and "Drivers that aren't taught how to use lanes properly."

Surely you don't live in a city.

As long as we're trading non sequiturs: when you think about why you don't want your phone to behave this way, you'll understand why I don't want my car to.
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