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Crows are even smarter than we thought

nautil.us

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Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#241

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

KineticLensman wrote: post #235
hypercube33 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Badgers are incredibly smart and we seem to not be able to train them at all. There's a pair on YouTube that figure out how to escape their sanctuary

Honey badgers? I visited a place in Africa where a pair were housed in an old tile-sided swimming pool because they could get through anything else. Until someone left a long-handled garden tool in there and they used it to climb out. One of the two was never seen again. The other was caught in a lion enclosure - it had cornered of the lions who was trying to avoid a fight, allegedly.

A classic Honey Badger Meme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#242

Post by EvanAnderson »

eru wrote: post #199
kibae wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pigeons were used in WW1 and WW2 for communication. Paddy the pigeon [0] flew 230 miles across the English channel to relay the success of the D-Day invasion. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_(pigeon)

Didn't they have wireless communication? What benefits did the pigeons have?

Triangulation of the sender (or the receiver by way of emissions of the receiving set) was a problem in WWII. There's also the problem of traffic analysis. I would think birds would be immune to both.

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#243

Post by card_zero »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #217
card_zero wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though perpetual motion is reasoned to be false, rather than declared false because statistically we never had any luck trying, or by an exhaustive search of all possible perpetual motion machines.

It isn't just statistics and bad luck for PM inventors. There are physical reasons arguing strongly that it's impossible.

That's what I said. How are you reading the opposite?

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#244

Post by snet0 »

milleramp wrote: post #111

When I was little I had a small bb gun and would shoot cans in the backyard. A couple times i shot a crow and it would bounce off their strong chest and they would fly off seemingly unfazed. One time by pure chance I hit a crow in the neck and it died instantly, crashing down into my neighbor's yard. It was very shocking because I had not killed anything like that before. Immediately crows started circling my parents…

This is a hard way to learn it, but I think the recognition of non-human animals as being alive in the same way we are is quite a profound moment. Just that realisation of this thing that was previously just a robotic, animated part of "the natural world", like a blade of grass that can move, suddenly being - in its own way - related to itself and others of its species. People find this easy with pets, I guess, but I think the moment you recognise a farm or wild animal as being of a similar kind as you, it can really change your perspective.

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#245

Post by qup »

rsync wrote: post #96

What if they’re all, by our own definition, intelligent… … but what makes us special is that we’re the only ones who care ? What if ego is the unique human trait? What if the reason my goats don’t communicate with me isn’t because they’re dumb… but because they couldn’t care less ?

Okay, but have you been around a goat?

Hold a bucket of grain and they will have the incredible urgent desire to communicate with you.

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#246

Post by hnfong »

card_zero wrote: post #200
hnfong wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law is one practical aspect of free will that people generally don't talk much about. For example, criminal law generally assumes people have free will, and thus should be responsible for their actions. If we take the stance that people are in fact merely deterministically doing what they are fated to do given circumstances, some of the punishments doled out to convicts might make people feel uneasy. (Eg. if being po…

Funny, to me it seems people talk about this one a lot. And the same answer applies. Yes, we have free will and responsibility (because we can respond). Also yes, we do what we do because of physical mechanisms which means you could say we're "fated" (leaving aside the irrelevant complication of chance and probability). However, the law is only concerned with people doing (codified) wrong. It lets people off for bein…

I'm not sure I get your point -- it looks like you're starting from the conclusion that people do have free will, which of course does not create problems I mentioned.

What I was trying to say is that if one believes determinism is incompatible with the concept of free will, then they cannot think the law is fair because nothing has free will. And I'm hypothesizing that people who think that way might be a bit queasy about determinism etc.

FWIW, I personally believe free will exists for reasons outside the scope of this discussion, and I doubt it's necessary to conclude first whether it exists or not to get my original point across...

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#247

Post by [deleted] »

tux1968 wrote: post #27

Have posted this before, but it really left an impression about crows, and the bond between their mates: Years ago I was putting out the garbage in the back alley behind our building where I lived on the 8th floor. A crow attacked me out of the blue. Distracted by the attack, the back door slammed shut behind me. Since my key was only good for the front door, I had to walk around the building. That damn crow followed…

[deleted]

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#248

Post by [deleted] »

tetrisgm wrote: post #33

We're not the only intelligent life on earth. We cant even define intelligence or measure it meaningfully. If we accept that human children are smart, then we must accept that species at equivalent levels of cognition are as well. Elephants, crows, dolphins, octopi, chimps, orang utan are all clearly very smart, and more intelligent than a human child. Besides being biologically irrelevant, the separation between hum…

[deleted]

Re: Crows are even smarter than we thought

#249

Post by qup »

14 wrote: post #141

I have always loved crows. I used to carry a bag of unshelled peanuts in my car to feed to them if I saw them. One day I was pulled over and saw a lone crow. So I threw a peanut and watched him open it easily with his beak and eat the nuts. Then I threw 2 peanuts and he picked up both in it's mouth and flew a short distance away and ate them. I always new crows could fit 2 peanuts but not 3 so I thought what would yo…

Sounds like they were shelled
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