This could be abused in any number of ways and would probably make people and their precious children less safe in the long run rather than more safe. You can be sure Viktor Orban would use it to crack down on political opposition in Hungary, for example. In the wrong hands, could be used to have these precious children or their parents killed or worse. Authoritarian governments often do things, or threaten to do thi…
Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...
EU ChatControl is back on the agenda
191–200 of 279 posts
Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen a few recent videos out of the UK that made my blood boil. Police visits to your home because of mean posts, and then off to jail in handcuffs. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Those “mean posts” were people organising violent riots that cost the country millions and targeted small business owners just for being ethnic minorities. People shouldn’t get a free pass on organising violence and riots just because they did it online. Edit: I don’t normally comment on the peer moderation that happens on HN but wow there are a lot of people online today that believe free speech trumps all other law…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-60930670
Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda
#193You can just send encrypted text through a unencrypted channel, look, these are instructions for the next terrorist attack: vss8uATnfADT6Z/XN3yUcjq3R5e8P8HjIkm2GbS6e8CbOnQb5qx0112mmjgUezWbAMxSPegGo8TSMIj3rEEe9mG/JYzsDb9g2tm6zfeLEYA=
Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the other hand, there are EU countries like Lithuania, which have a very privacy-conscious culture, and have not had any meaningful terror attacks for nearly all their history. The last notable one was 30 years ago[0]. No one died. In Lithuania, privacy is quite meaningfully enshrined in its constitution[1]. I remember that Google StreetView faced significant regulatory challenges in simply photographing people’s…
Lithuania? Just pitch it as a way to fight back against Russia, and it will pass in a jiffy just like all the other anti-russian laws they've been rolling through
- Two months ago there were major arson attacks and failed attempts linked to Russians in multiple states like Poland and Germany.
- Russian linked agents at the beginning of school year dissiminated false information about bombs being planted at schools in Lithuania which disrupted the process in general and undermined trust of parents and children.
- They are also constantly creating false narratives about ongoing social events with ant-lithuanian anti-european spin and spreading them online.
- Lets also not forget that Russia is constantly using migrants to attack borders of European states.
Russians are trying to wage war in every gray area they can find. Why this paragon of free speech (kekw) constantly engages in anti-lithuanian policies?
Even more interesting recently they started mapping out locations of optic fibers scattered across the ocean. Lets hope they wont use this information.
Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda
#195This could be abused in any number of ways and would probably make people and their precious children less safe in the long run rather than more safe. You can be sure Viktor Orban would use it to crack down on political opposition in Hungary, for example. In the wrong hands, could be used to have these precious children or their parents killed or worse. Authoritarian governments often do things, or threaten to do thi…
Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...
Erdogan had the majority of votes go his way in the last election. Also Putin. :)
Of course gerrymandering is an age old tactic:
> First, the party rewrote the entire Hungarian constitution in secret. Parliament passed the new constitution after only nine days of debate. Changes included a restructuring of Hungarian elections, such that more than half of parliamentary representatives would be chosen through single-member, American-style districts (the remainder are determined by a national proportional-vote share). In drawing the new districts, Fidesz abused a rule that allowed the government to vary them in size from roughly 60,000 to 90,000 people.
> The new map packed opposition voters into a handful of larger districts, diluting their votes, while pro-Fidesz voters were distributed among smaller districts. This gerrymandered system would allow Fidesz to fall short of a popular-vote majority but still win a two-thirds majority in Parliament—something that happened not once but twice, in 2014 and 2018.
> A blizzard of other electoral changes accompanied the redistricting. Each was incremental, and potentially even defensible in isolation. But in combination, the laws erected extraordinary barriers that would keep opposition parties from winning elections. For example, the old system had allowed for a runoff in any district where the victorious candidate got less than 50 percent of the vote. The new system abolished the runoff, allowing a party to win a district with a mere plurality. At the same time, Fidesz created a rule that required national parties to compete in at least 27 single-member districts—even as the party passed laws that made it trickier for small parties to unite on a joint list. The result was that the various opposition parties were basically forced to split the anti-Fidesz vote in many districts, allowing Orbán’s candidates to win with relatively small pluralities.
* https://archive.ph/6DiTT / https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/07/wh...
The trick in 'modern' authoritarian systems is (often) to not bother going after your opposition, but mostly trying to stay in power (see above) and helping your friends:
> The railway and stadium have been pilloried by the prime minister’s critics as vanity projects. But they have something else in common. Both were built, in part, by Felcsut’s mayor, and a childhood friend of Mr Orban, Lorinc Meszaros. Until a few years ago, Mr Meszaros was a gas fitter. Thanks to winning state contracts, he jumped to number five in this year’s list of the wealthiest Hungarians compiled by website Napi.hu. In a year, his fortune soared from Ft23bn (€73m) to Ft120bn.
* https://archive.ph/v8f6R / https://www.ft.com/content/ecf6fb4e-d900-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b...
> I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting.
The Cato Institute called out Hungary in their most recent Human Freedom Report:
> Since 2007, the high point in human freedom, a minority of jurisdictions have increased their level of freedom, but many of them, such as Myanmar, began from a very low base, and many others experienced only minor improvements. The vast majority of jurisdictions saw declines. Among the countries and territories that deteriorated the most are Nicaragua, Syria, Hong Kong, Egypt, Turkey, and Hungary (see Table 3).
* https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2023-12/human-free...
Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those “mean posts” were people organising violent riots that cost the country millions and targeted small business owners just for being ethnic minorities. People shouldn’t get a free pass on organising violence and riots just because they did it online. Edit: I don’t normally comment on the peer moderation that happens on HN but wow there are a lot of people online today that believe free speech trumps all other law…
I'm a little hesitant to comment because I haven't been able to dig up the actual charges, but there is a history of people in the UK being charged and arrested for mean posts. A few storys jumped out at me, eg the Kelly case did seem at the time to be a betrayal of the liberal tradition assuming the BBCs reporting is accurate - realistically people should be able to gratuitously insult people who contributed of the…
What the GP was referring to was those jailed for inciting violence and hatred during the wave of riots the UK suffered last month.
Their actions were a lot worse and had real world, tangible, effects on people and their property. It wasn’t just them sharing a meme (which is the popular trope some on HN describe the event as).
It’s worth noting that people in America get arrested for similar actions. In another comment I drew parallels to the Capitol riots.
The crux of the reason people get put in jail “for posting mean things” is because they’ve broken other, much worse laws in the process.
Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda
#197I'm a bit curious why Netherlands would then hold a neutral position in this case, further weakening phone security.
https://nos.nl/artikel/2534226-schoof-over-telefoonverbod-in...
Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, but are people getting arrested in America for social media posts?
Yes, and for saying broadly the same kind of things that got people arrested in the UK. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/federal-agents-mon...
That’s the difference from the UK.
Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are getting responses about expatriate voting. That's not what he did. Before WWII, Hungary was much larger. After, a large portion was ceded to Romania. He used a sudden super-majority to grant those people the right to vote. Subsequently, his political party has even held political conferences in Romania. Those Romanians are not Hungarian citizens. They mostly do not suffer the consequences Orban's policy decis…
Yes this is definitely what the parent comment was getting at, he gave voting rights to diaspora ethnic Hungarians: “Orban granted citizenship and the right to vote in Hungarian elections to more than a million Hungarians living in neighbouring countries. At the last election, 95% of those who voted backed Fidesz.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Viktor_Orban
I don’t see a big difference between that and Germany giving citizenship to all the people who were Germans prior to WW2, but weren’t after the war.
Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a little hesitant to comment because I haven't been able to dig up the actual charges, but there is a history of people in the UK being charged and arrested for mean posts. A few storys jumped out at me, eg the Kelly case did seem at the time to be a betrayal of the liberal tradition assuming the BBCs reporting is accurate - realistically people should be able to gratuitously insult people who contributed of the…
It’s hard to comment on that case without knowing what was Tweeted but on the surface of it, I do agree with you. However he wasn’t sent to jail and thus it wasn’t the incident the GP described. What the GP was referring to was those jailed for inciting violence and hatred during the wave of riots the UK suffered last month. Their actions were a lot worse and had real world, tangible, effects on people and their prop…
My friend, I didn't refer to that at all, there's no need to lie. You were referring to those cases, not me.