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EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

digitalcourage.social

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#91

Post by [deleted] »

dijit wrote: post #22
sharpshadow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...

Yeah, Putin also enjoys a really high approval rating. Quite easy when you control the state media and suppress opposition... which is what the EU is trying to fine Hungary for doing, but Poland kept blocking it. Source: https://europeanlawblog.eu/2024/07/01/evading-the-european-m...

[deleted]

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#92

Post by logicchains »

Joeri wrote: post #24
2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #8

Okay, so all Western societies are bound to go surveillance state in near future, unchecked by judicial forces and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What is the response to that of the technologically competent segment of society? Will this give birth to a rogue cyberpunk culture of hackers and cowboys? Or are we facing an era resembling a black mirror episode with smile…

You cannot fix society’s problems through technical means, every technology workaround around a bad law can be countered by legal/judicial controls. Invasive conservative policies always see upticks in times of social upheaval. We live in a time with a high rate of change, and people want stability and control, and vote for politicians and policies that deliver that. Make people feel safe and stable and they’ll stop…

You absolutely can get around restrictive laws through technical means, that's why buying illegal drugs online is safer and more convenient than even before.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#93

Post by mrtksn »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #5

This could be abused in any number of ways and would probably make people and their precious children less safe in the long run rather than more safe. You can be sure Viktor Orban would use it to crack down on political opposition in Hungary, for example. In the wrong hands, could be used to have these precious children or their parents killed or worse. Authoritarian governments often do things, or threaten to do thi…

There are people who believe that their job is more important than anything else and that they deserve to have the "sudo tools" so they can override any protection to catch the bad people and that they are respected mature people so it is OK to grant them with these privileges, they will be careful and won't abuse it.

Obviously that's bad idea and a bad practice as we know it from IT systems.

Maybe their intentions are good but even proposing something like that should be considered a ground for dismissal. EU, USA etc. are not startups, these are not newly forming countries that full stack politicians need the sharpest tools to make something great quickly. Those are established, sophisticated institutions that must move slowly and be risk averse and there's no space for sharp tools like these and the problems need to be solved through navigating the complex structure.

Maybe wouldn't be as fun as running Turkmenistan, maybe they will lag behind this emerging unicorn called China in some respect but that's how very large and complex structures have to operate. The new kids on the block will end up exactly the same if they are successful and mature beyond the hype.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#94

Post by Zak »

Shalle135 wrote: post #30

How would a law stop criminals from using encrypted applications without sharing private keys with gov? Shootings, pedophiles, drugs, terror etc should definetly be higher on the scale than hosting an illegal application. In addition to this, how do they expect to implement this for non-EU companies? The DNS blockades that are already going on today are less than efficient.

I don't believe the previous proposals contain penalties for end users, just operators of noncompliant services. There were also some exceptions that mean educated and determined users would still have access to secure options.

I think the policy goal is to make secure chat non-mainstream. It's easy to imagine reasons governments might want that, and most of them aren't aligned with the principles of liberal democracy.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#96

Post by baxtr »

sharpshadow wrote: post #15
aussieguy1234 wrote: post #5

This could be abused in any number of ways and would probably make people and their precious children less safe in the long run rather than more safe. You can be sure Viktor Orban would use it to crack down on political opposition in Hungary, for example. In the wrong hands, could be used to have these precious children or their parents killed or worse. Authoritarian governments often do things, or threaten to do thi…

Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...

I think one real good test of a democracy is to plot a line with years and above the name of the person ruling the country.

In the US you will see at least every 8 years a different name on top of the line.

I think a good democratic system will not have a new leader every year but maybe every 4-8 years.

Anything below won’t be stable enough for mid/long term policy changes. Anything above will be good for the leader and her entourage but most probably not for the entire country and its democracy.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#97

Post by vasco »

You can just send encrypted text through a unencrypted channel, look, these are instructions for the next terrorist attack:

vss8uATnfADT6Z/XN3yUcjq3R5e8P8HjIkm2GbS6e8CbOnQb5qx0112mmjgUezWbAMxSPegGo8TSMIj3rEEe9mG/JYzsDb9g2tm6zfeLEYA=

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#98

Post by moffkalast »

tebbers wrote: post #7
tmpccc wrote: post #3

I am in favor of ChatControl for politicians only: https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/two-agencies-... "The Ombudsman accused von der Leyen and the Commission of ‘maladministration’ for failing to produce the deleted text messages, challenging the belief that such texts did not qualify as ‘documents’ under EU law."

Same problem in the UK. Boris Johnson claimed he lost his phone and then it got wiped. Rishi Sunak similarly.

The dog ate it! I lost it in a tragic boating accident!

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#99

Post by StrLght »

dt3ft wrote: post #65
StrLght wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your example with Telegram has nothing to do with E2E encryption, which is precisely what Chat Control is aimed at. Please look for a more relevant straw man.

The ordering process is likely handled in e2e 1:1 chat. The public and unencrypted channel is only used as advertising/entry point. The evidence of purchase is as such not accessible to the authorities.

Poor law enforcement who are not capable of acquiring evidence via a controlled buy. Better give them access to everyone's private messages, that will definitely solve crimes once and for all.

My point it: if shouting "I am doing something illegal" in public isn't enough to get law enforcement's attention, how would access to private messages change this?

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#100

Post by ajsnigrutin »

cpursley wrote: post #82
even_639765 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fascism you're looking for is in the UK and France this month.

I still can’t get over that the UK arrests people over social media posts. Is the US the only place on the planet that actually has free speech?

Depends on what you publish.... if you just yell about different random people, sure... if you post a video of war crimes, well.. that's a different story now.
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