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MongoDB takes a swing at PostgreSQL after claiming wins against rival

theregister.com

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Re: MongoDB takes a swing at PostgreSQL after claiming wins against rival

#31

Post by bdjsiqoocwk »

flashgordon wrote: post #18
lpapez wrote: post #9

I was there in 2010s migrating Mongo databases chosen by "expert consultants" to Postgres and dealing with the fallout of massive tech debt those decisions usually caused. Won't get fooled again - no matter how many fluff articles they write you will sooner find me rotting in this barren earth than see me pick MongoDB for a new project.

Just checking you said migrating mongo to postgres. Did you mean the other way around? I still don't understand how mongo is still in business.

He said migrating mongo to postgres because someone else make the stupid decision of using mongo.

Re: MongoDB takes a swing at PostgreSQL after claiming wins against rival

#32

Post by bdjsiqoocwk »

lpapez wrote: post #9

I was there in 2010s migrating Mongo databases chosen by "expert consultants" to Postgres and dealing with the fallout of massive tech debt those decisions usually caused. Won't get fooled again - no matter how many fluff articles they write you will sooner find me rotting in this barren earth than see me pick MongoDB for a new project.

I guess you'll miss out on the enjoyable syntax then.

Re: MongoDB takes a swing at PostgreSQL after claiming wins against rival

#33

Post by bdjsiqoocwk »

a57721 wrote: post #13

The quotes from the CEO are misleading, implying MongoDB is document-based and PostgreSQL is 100% relational. This is not true, PostgreSQL has had JSON support for quite some time.

Postgres is 100% relational AND supports JSON.

Re: MongoDB takes a swing at PostgreSQL after claiming wins against rival

#35

Post by nyrikki »

petcat wrote: post #24
nyrikki wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Document-oriented databases are a subclass of the key-value store. Postgres jason types are blobs in an RDBMS, and jsonb is to be avoided in almost all cases. I am not a MongoDB cheerleader and I am a huge fan of Postgres when SQL is appropriate, but equating an ACID style DB with a key value store misses the point. But it is horses for courses, people using MongoDB for acid transactions when support landed in v4 is…

> Postgres jason types are blobs in an RDBMS, and jsonb is to be avoided in almost all cases. You might be uniformed (or misinformed) on this topic. JSONB is not just a "blob" in Postgres. It's a first-class value type with full query-ability and indexing support. [0] https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/functions-json.html

Fighting with autocorrect, 'json' type is a blob with a path search in front.

https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/datatype-json.html

> JSON data is subject to the same concurrency-control considerations as any other data type when stored in a table. Although storing large documents is practicable, keep in mind that any update acquires a row-level lock on the whole row.

Concurrency is far more nuanced in MongoDB and storage of documents has far fewer side effects than jsonb.

The ad hominem is ironic with someone claiming RDBMS and key value stores are equivalent.

Re: MongoDB takes a swing at PostgreSQL after claiming wins against rival

#36

Post by djbusby »

flashgordon wrote: post #18
lpapez wrote: post #9

I was there in 2010s migrating Mongo databases chosen by "expert consultants" to Postgres and dealing with the fallout of massive tech debt those decisions usually caused. Won't get fooled again - no matter how many fluff articles they write you will sooner find me rotting in this barren earth than see me pick MongoDB for a new project.

Just checking you said migrating mongo to postgres. Did you mean the other way around? I still don't understand how mongo is still in business.

Not OP, I'm sure it was Mongo to PG. I've seen it too.

Once someone couldn't scale (c2012) their MySQL. I recommend analyzing and working on the code. A competing consultant said Mongo. So, three years later they called me back to un-fuck that thing (that was only 3/4 done anyway) and then move everything to PG (and a fixed schema and some improved caching).

Re: MongoDB takes a swing at PostgreSQL after claiming wins against rival

#37

Post by arealaccount »

lpapez wrote: post #9

I was there in 2010s migrating Mongo databases chosen by "expert consultants" to Postgres and dealing with the fallout of massive tech debt those decisions usually caused. Won't get fooled again - no matter how many fluff articles they write you will sooner find me rotting in this barren earth than see me pick MongoDB for a new project.

Generally speaking I agree, having structured typed data is going to make for an easier platform to work with.

But are you saying Mongo specifically is the problem, or are you saying any non relational data store is the issue?

Re: MongoDB takes a swing at PostgreSQL after claiming wins against rival

#38

Post by petcat »

evantbyrne wrote: post #30
hinkley wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are any of you guys old enough to remember when Marc Fleury got caught in an astroturfing scheme involving JBoss employees? That’s actually how I learned that word had been coined. The MongoDB Team didn’t do exactly the same, or at least nobody caught them, but they did have a massive hype cycle, selling snake oil full of serious concurrency bugs. Managed to time their funding right so they ended up with enough money…

I suspect a good amount of the hype around NoSQL was driven by frontend developers transitioning into backend work via Node, and Mongo being relatively simple to get started on compared to relational databases. And that culture seems to have stuck. To this day, many popular backend js frameworks either completely ignore relational data storage or slap some bare bones interface over it.

I believe that this is also why we're starting to see a surge in people wanting to run SQLite as their backend database. It's similarly simple to start out with, and also similarly flimsy when dealing with actual data integrity. Very limited types, limited isolation options, ref integrity disabled by default (Mongo DB also disables things by default that hurts their benchmarks).

But hey, SQLite is better than Mongo DB, at least. So we're making progress

Re: MongoDB takes a swing at PostgreSQL after claiming wins against rival

#39

Post by nahnahno »

codr7 wrote: post #15

I consider MongoDB a huge warning sign; if you think that's a good idea I don't want anything to do with your code.

Mongo is hated here but I’ve made many services with Postgres and mongo is just far easier to use. Json tooling in Postgres is not as good.

I don’t particularly hate or like any one database, but thinking about migrating the workloads that I have in mongo to Postgres just gives me no interest. Mongo solves the problems I have very well.

Re: MongoDB takes a swing at PostgreSQL after claiming wins against rival

#40

Post by computerfan494 »

I have deployed Postgres and MongoDB at petabyte scale. I am happy to answer questions from others who are intellectually curious about differences between the two that would matter to users who have to spend serious amounts of money on their databases.
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