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Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

programmers.stackexchange.com

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Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#101

Post by gm »

mattmanser wrote: post #82
rubyrescue wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

create "mystackrunnethover.com" (or mystackoverfloweth.com) and just post those questions... use OSQA to keep the same format?

There's already a http://programmers.stackexchange.com/ but personally I find its answers woefully lacking compared to similar ones that happened on SO. There seems to be a certain type of person drawn to a site dedicated entirely to program architecture which means the input from more practical programmers (and their sanity votes) gets lost.

Well, part of the funny thing about this story submission is that it's a programmers.se.com q/a that got still closed by mods.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#102

Post by Swizec »

mgkimsal wrote: post #100
lmkg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programmers tend to think that programming is the most important part of making software. However, managers think that managing is the most important part of making software, and business analysts think that defining business requirements is the most important part of making software. Asking a room of programmers about the value of business analysts is going to result in feedback that is heavily biased. As you say, w…

"Programmers tend to think that programming is the most important part of making software. However, managers think that managing is the most important part of making software, and business analysts think that defining business requirements is the most important part of making software. Asking a room of programmers about the value of business analysts is going to result in feedback that is heavily biased. As you say,…

I've had projects fail because we couldn't get the core algorithms working ...

Hell, most of my interesting failures so far have been "Okay, so computers can't do X (yet), or I'm too stupid to figure it out and don't know anyone smart enough to solve X"

A lot of my projects would sell like hotcakes, once someone figures out a practical implementation, or at least an impractical one.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#103

Post by edwinnathaniel »

gouranga wrote: post #25
edwinnathaniel wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is this "good developer" exist? Most good developers that I know of don't communicate as well as BA or PM when it comes to interfacing with non-technical people. NB: Not to say that these developers are bad communicators. They're less patient, they tend to have an "ideal" picture, and they work better with computers than a normal human being.

they're usually contractors these days to be honest. I always sit in the middle between humans and machines and am quite happy getting my hands dirty with both sides. Communication and management is part of the job.

Your reply made my day. Typically HN-ers would reply with something out of the ballpark of Reality. This one is an honest, down to earth, reality reply.

Contractors, on the other hand, have to deal with Accounting department, BAs, PMs, etc and then ship something... :D

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#104

Post by mgkimsal »

Swizec wrote: post #102
mgkimsal wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Programmers tend to think that programming is the most important part of making software. However, managers think that managing is the most important part of making software, and business analysts think that defining business requirements is the most important part of making software. Asking a room of programmers about the value of business analysts is going to result in feedback that is heavily biased. As you say,…

I've had projects fail because we couldn't get the core algorithms working ... Hell, most of my interesting failures so far have been "Okay, so computers can't do X (yet), or I'm too stupid to figure it out and don't know anyone smart enough to solve X" A lot of my projects would sell like hotcakes, once someone figures out a practical implementation, or at least an impractical one.

I'd thought about that angle, and I've known a couple of those myself over the years (mostly second hand). But even in the cases I've seen, things might have gone much smoother had there been stronger communication about the specifics and what was (and was not) possible much earlier.

As soon as things look to be not possible, tell someone. If you're able to pull a rabbit out of a hat later on, great, but let people know that real hard limits (algorithm, processing speed, etc) are being hit. sometimes what someone was indicating was a hard requirement turns out to be a 'oh, it'd be nice to have that, let's move on' sort of thing.

So, while I get your point, I think overall there's still things people can do wrt communication even when there are fundamentally tech issues at stake.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#105

Post by systems »

lmkg wrote: post #45
timsally wrote: post #10

The top rated comment on this question asserts that the reason why programmers have lower salaries is because they are logical, intelligent individuals who refuse to play the politics game and thus are hated by executives. Not only it this incorrect (have you seen the politics in certain open source software projects ?) but it plays into a narrative that programmers want to believe: business people are corrupt and pr…

Programmers tend to think that programming is the most important part of making software. However, managers think that managing is the most important part of making software, and business analysts think that defining business requirements is the most important part of making software. Asking a room of programmers about the value of business analysts is going to result in feedback that is heavily biased. As you say, w…

Programming is the most important part of making software, programmers are right ... I am systems analyst

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#106

Post by otoburb »

bmj wrote: post #34

In my engineering group, we don't have project managers or analysts. We have product managers (who are responsible for much more than a project manager, and make more than the average PM, methinks). The lead engineer on each project does some PM-y tasks, but it's generally up to the product manager to produce the documentation/charts/spreadsheets. In our operations group, there are PMs, but they are responsible for m…

Depending on the aggressiveness of the corporate culture, the first point of contact also gives the client one non-sales throat to choke.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#107

Post by vacri »

systems wrote: post #105
lmkg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programmers tend to think that programming is the most important part of making software. However, managers think that managing is the most important part of making software, and business analysts think that defining business requirements is the most important part of making software. Asking a room of programmers about the value of business analysts is going to result in feedback that is heavily biased. As you say, w…

Programming is the most important part of making software, programmers are right ... I am systems analyst

In today's economically rationalised world, almost every position in a company is important. If it wasn't, they wouldn't pay for it. Saying who is more important to the process is somewhat meaningless - wages are generally aligned to how difficult it is to replace a person's skillset.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#108

Post by hurshp »

The reason is just culture there is nothing else. When the major professions Lawyers, MBA's, Doctors, Engineers became part of the majority work force a culture emerged. Somehow the people who in aggregate create the most value in the working world as far as dollar is concerned started to under bid each other for competition, you look at any software/engineering contract there is always and under bidding war going on, always.

But with Doctors, MBA, Lawyers they are always looking to get the most personal financial benefit, and even put in laws and other policy to assure they will, hence the prestige. It has gotten to the point where engineers are seen as cogs as I can hire someone else to do the same thing, plus they are paid the least anyway so they are easy to replace.

I think it is just starting to change if you go in the tech/startup world you can make more money ,developers are paid even over $500k, the difference is the culture they value your work.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#109

Post by nodemaker »

yashchandra wrote: post #49

after almost 50 comments, I say let the developers, BAs,PM, QAs all win. After all, we all want to get the project out of the door, make some money on the way and go home.

>After all, we all want to get the project out of the door, make some money on the way and go home.

This is Hacker News, not Project Manager Forums. I am sure most of us just want to create awesome things and not "go home"!

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#110

Post by zem »

pumblechook wrote: post #14

The easy answer is: because that is what the market dictates. Programming may be difficult, but I'd be willing to bet there are a lot more programmers out there than people willing to be a PM (and stick with it).

precisely so. and i don't care - no, actually i'm glad that PMing pays more than programming, so that it will attract people willing to do it and let me concentrate on the things i find fun.
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