A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#101

Post by PhasmaFelis » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:53 PM UTC

Gormo wrote: post #84

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that tipping is mainly to enable the restaurant owner to avoid paying their workers properly.

No, tipping is a way of directly compensating people who are directly doing work for you, even in the context of an organization managing the transaction. You tip people who are personally responding to your requests -- that's why the dishwasher and other people you're not directly interacting with don't usually get tipped.

That doesn't change the fact that it's near-universally used as an excuse to underpay workers.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#102

Post by cvwright » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:53 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #31

didgetmaster wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the job is unskilled (i.e. you can train the next person to do it in less than one hour) and you have several people standing in line to take it if the person doing it, quits; then the current wage is clearly enough. It is just like the price of the meal. If it costs more than people are willing to pay, then it is too expensive; regardless of what you personally think it should cost.

There will always be people desperate enough to race to the bottom, but that doesn't make it a good thing for society at scale.

Especially when we import millions of low-skill / no-skill people every year to compete with the poor people who were born here.

Works great for the upper classes - keeps the price down for those fancy Michelin dinners.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#103

Post by tiphawk » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:56 PM UTC

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #72

CalRobert wrote: post #71

My summer as a dishwasher made it clear tipping, already deeply stupid, is wildly unfair even to service workers. A lot of people helped you get your meal, but your dishwasher is definitely not tipped.

I thought that tipping is mainly to enable the restaurant owner to avoid paying their workers properly.

The point of tipping is to incentivize good service. You're supposed to vary your tip according to the quality of the service. It stopped working when people got too nice. Now people still tip well even when the service sucks. It's just a holdover from a better time at this point.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#104

Post by JTbane » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:56 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #71

My summer as a dishwasher made it clear tipping, already deeply stupid, is wildly unfair even to service workers. A lot of people helped you get your meal, but your dishwasher is definitely not tipped.

Aren't there some places that "tip-out" back of the house staff from the waitstaff tip pool?

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#105

Post by johannes1234321 » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:56 PM UTC

Gormo wrote: post #100

Larrikin wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So like the accountant filing your taxes, the person who fixes your bug in the bug report, the electrician adding power to a new room, the plumber fixing a leak?

No. Most of those people are self-employed, so you are usually already paying 100% of the compensation directly to them in the first place. Tipping is for when someone is doing work directly for you, but as an employee of another party.

Why is there a difference between somebody carrying a plate from the kitchen to my table and somebody preparing that plate just for me?

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#106

Post by bombcar » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:57 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #71

My summer as a dishwasher made it clear tipping, already deeply stupid, is wildly unfair even to service workers. A lot of people helped you get your meal, but your dishwasher is definitely not tipped.

I worked a restaurant with pooled tips, and the bussers got to split 15% of the total tips, and the dishwashers got some too (iirc, 5% but there was usually only one).

I don't recall if the chef/cooks got any but I also believe they were salaried.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#107

Post by bastawhiz » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:57 PM UTC

Gormo wrote: post #84

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that tipping is mainly to enable the restaurant owner to avoid paying their workers properly.

No, tipping is a way of directly compensating people who are directly doing work for you, even in the context of an organization managing the transaction. You tip people who are personally responding to your requests -- that's why the dishwasher and other people you're not directly interacting with don't usually get tipped.

If that was actually true, minimum wage for tipped employees would be equal to the standard minimum wage.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#108

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:58 PM UTC

Larrikin wrote: post #94

Gormo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, tipping is a way of directly compensating people who are directly doing work for you, even in the context of an organization managing the transaction. You tip people who are personally responding to your requests -- that's why the dishwasher and other people you're not directly interacting with don't usually get tipped.

So like the accountant filing your taxes, the person who fixes your bug in the bug report, the electrician adding power to a new room, the plumber fixing a leak?

[deleted]

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#109

Post by wichert » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:58 PM UTC

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #87

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that tipping is mainly to enable the restaurant owner to avoid paying their workers properly.

It's a combination of things, but it's similar to why online stores advertise a price, and then add charges at checkout (like shipping, or credit card charge, processing fee, etc). You entice the customer with the lower price, and once they have committed, you can hit them with another charge or fee without as much ramification. Restaurant customers can be price sensitive, so tipping is a way to advertise a lower pri…

Let me change that a bit: "it's pretty ubiquitous in the US". It's not common everywhere. My personal observation (in NL) is that with the transition from cash to contactless payment it seems to be becoming less common over time. Payment terminals here are not setup to ask for a tip (with very rare exceptions) - you just pay the amount on the receipt directly.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#110

Post by liotier » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 2:58 PM UTC

Gormo wrote: post #84

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that tipping is mainly to enable the restaurant owner to avoid paying their workers properly.

No, tipping is a way of directly compensating people who are directly doing work for you, even in the context of an organization managing the transaction. You tip people who are personally responding to your requests -- that's why the dishwasher and other people you're not directly interacting with don't usually get tipped.

> No, tipping is a way of directly compensating people who are directly doing work for you

From a European point of view, this is ludicrous. Why don't workers in the USA receive a salary from their employer instead of resorting to charity from their employer's customers ? How is not paying employees even legal ?