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Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

theguardian.com

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Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#171

Post by maximinus_thrax »

rangerelf wrote: post #64
maximinus_thrax wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they don't. You're trying a false equivalency between a bribe and gratuity. A bribe happens before the service is provided and the service is contingent upon the bribe. Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided.

"Tipping" absolutely is a kind of bribe. Let's take police officers in México, for México, for example. One needs to pay bribes to get anything done. On the other hand, they have almost zero job protection, have absolutely crappy salaries, most of the time have to buy their own uniforms, their own gas for the police cars, and so forth. And on top of that, they have to contribute to "upwards bribes", so they can keep…

> "Tipping" absolutely is a kind of bribe.

No, it is not. Legally, per the SCOTUS, it is definitely not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyder_v._United_States

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#172

Post by giantg2 »

FigurativeVoid wrote: post #38
afavour wrote: post #17

IMO it's just bad policy all round without a significantly higher level of detail. For example, how do we classify a tip vs a wage? If we're not very, very specific about it's going to be yet another tax loophole exploited by the rich who will pay each other $1 for work and then 'tip' thousands more. Sure you’re an engineer on staff now but wouldn’t you want to be a freelancer, paid minimum wage and then a healthy “t…

I would say this is ridiculous, until I read Snyder v. United States[1,2]. > Held: Section 666 proscribes bribes to state and local officials but does not make it a crime for those officials to accept gratuities for their past acts. Pp. 7–16. 1. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108_8n5a.pdf . 2. https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/snyder-v-united-...

Or take donations through their charities and use it as a proxy for their own influence.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#173

Post by maximinus_thrax »

II2II wrote: post #83
maximinus_thrax wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they don't. You're trying a false equivalency between a bribe and gratuity. A bribe happens before the service is provided and the service is contingent upon the bribe. Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided.

I work for the government and we are not allowed to accept tips. Even if there is a technical difference between a bribe and a gratuity, it is too easy to misconstrue a tip as a bribe (by either or both parties) and it is too easy to frame a bribe as a tip.

Have them update the guidelines; the SCOTUS ruled in your favor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyder_v._United_States

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#174

Post by throaway827 »

settsu wrote: post #160
next_xibalba wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever worked a job where you get tipped? I have. I was both a bartender and a server and my income was far better than both 1) the alternatives for which I was qualified, and 2) what my income would have been on flat, higher wage. If you haven't worked a job like that, it might be worth talking to people who do or have.

I've never worked full-time since I was 16 but never a job where tipping was the norm (I'm in the US) so maybe I'm missing something obvious but isn't a stable income preferable? And where is the assumption coming from that doing away with tips invariably requires making less money?

in high-tip jobs, you can count on the tips to be stable virtually every night

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#175

Post by giantg2 »

afavour wrote: post #17

IMO it's just bad policy all round without a significantly higher level of detail. For example, how do we classify a tip vs a wage? If we're not very, very specific about it's going to be yet another tax loophole exploited by the rich who will pay each other $1 for work and then 'tip' thousands more. Sure you’re an engineer on staff now but wouldn’t you want to be a freelancer, paid minimum wage and then a healthy “t…

Even not getting into those potential future abuses of the system, there are already some high tip earners such as some exotic dancers (median income $75k). So it wouldn't be helping only low income.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#176

Post by margalabargala »

nitwit005 wrote: post #155
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #94

The tipping culture in the US has got totally out of control over last 3-4 years. I'm more than fine tipping low waged people who provide an actual service like wait staff and barbers, but the ubiquitous payment terminals taking over for credit card payment, where the cashier/counter staff expect a 10/15/20% or more tip (some now have 20% as the minimum, unless you go "custom") for doing nothing, piss me off! What ne…

Stop using the term "tipping culture". It's not as if people spontaniously decided they wanted to tip more. What you're upset at is good old fashioned corporate greed.

Much as I hate corporate greed, I actually disagree with this one.

By and large, huge corporations tend to know that tip prompts annoy people and don't have them.

An overwhelming majority of the egregious tip asks, either for generic not-normally-tipped services, or prompting "25%, 35%, or 45%?", have been small businesses or food carts, especially in tourist-heavy areas.

Corporate greed isn't really part of it, because higher tips for the workers does not make its way to shareholders.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#177

Post by giantg2 »

jameshart wrote: post #138
andsoitis wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, how do we classify a tip vs a wage? Tips are well defined by the IRS, including reporting requirements: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

Supreme Court has decided that the final arbiter on rule making between statutory lines is on the courts now though. IRS can promulgate a regulation like that but anyone can take it to court and get their case ruled on separately.

Courts have always had oversight to some degree. Even when new statutes are written, you don't know if they can be enforced effectively until someone challenges the statute to create precedental case law validating it doesn't violate rights or anything.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#178

Post by giantg2 »

websap wrote: post #47

We're moving to a world that most restaurants won't have servers taking your food and drinks order. This is already happening in Seattle, multiple spots are now counter style ordering, you order, get a number and someone just comes from the kitchen to deliver the food. Some of them also have a QR code associated with your number which you can scan to order follow up items. Tipping more than 10% for counter style orde…

When you tip your server you might not know who gets it either. There are things like tip sharing and even tip pooling.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#179

Post by unsignedint »

I really dislike the tipping culture. Don’t get me wrong—I’m all for tipping when someone goes above and beyond. But I can't stand the expectation that a tip is mandatory, rather than something that's earned.

There was this one time at a restaurant where they completely dropped the ball. They brought me a cup of coffee but never came back to take my order, despite me asking. I ended up leaving without eating anything. Of course, I paid for the coffee, but I didn’t leave a tip.

When I mentioned this to some friends who used to work in the service industry, they all said I was the jerk for not tipping. But honestly, I don’t think I was in the wrong.

I visited Australia a while back, and I loved how their bills have a tipping line, but it’s never expected. That’s how it should be everywhere.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#180

Post by throaway827 »

carlosjobim wrote: post #107
more_corn wrote: post #2

How about no tax on people below the poverty line? When I was young it always killed me to make so little and still pay taxes.

I always found it strange that modern socialists and leftists are very supportive of income taxes, even though it is a dreadful burden on those people who have to work for their survival. Why wouldn't leftists instead be more for taxes and tariffs on land, on commerce, on natural resources or on luxuries? The funny thing is that one of the goals of the communist party in the Soviet Union was to abolish all income tax…

one reason is that it's hard for a leftist to imagine a world where people making millions or billions to have a 0% income tax rate
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