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Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

theguardian.com

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Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#51

Post by yieldcrv »

imgabe wrote: post #46
flerchin wrote: post #3

It needs to be clear if I'm shafting a sub-minimum wage worker, or declining an egregious tip-ask at the self-check counter.

Don't tip standing up. If you're ordering at a counter, that's not a tipped job. What are you even tipping for anyway? You haven't gotten your food yet, they're not bringing anything to you, it makes no sense. If the conceit of tips is that they incentivize good service, then tipping before you receive the service is nonsensical.

You’re tipping the restuarant so your date looking over your shoulder doesnt get the ick, its a lot of energy to get what you want out of a relationship for it to be felled by a tipping protest

This culture is socially policed and has nothing to do with service, or whether tips are split, taxed, or whether that part of the country already abolished sub minimum wage

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#52

Post by princevegeta89 »

websap wrote: post #47

We're moving to a world that most restaurants won't have servers taking your food and drinks order. This is already happening in Seattle, multiple spots are now counter style ordering, you order, get a number and someone just comes from the kitchen to deliver the food. Some of them also have a QR code associated with your number which you can scan to order follow up items. Tipping more than 10% for counter style orde…

If you ask me, tipping more than 0% for counter style ordering where there is no dedicated waiter involved makes no sense.

Even worse are the coffee shops - if you think getting a coffee is just a few bucks and is relatively cheap, note that you get robbed when you end up tipping. $1 or more tip on a $5 coffee. And there is nothing special you get, the baristas are just doing their basic job. Also the looks you get when you select the option "no tip" or the 0% tip, don't make it worth anything at all.

I stopped going to coffee shops a long time ago.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#53

Post by princevegeta89 »

hoosieree wrote: post #42
flerchin wrote: post #3

It needs to be clear if I'm shafting a sub-minimum wage worker, or declining an egregious tip-ask at the self-check counter.

If you must tip, only ever use cash. Otherwise you're also subsidizing Square, Toast, Visa, Stripe, etc. Did they give you exceptional service today? Use cash.

Tipping cash is great whenever you have it, but it's not convenient. Not in the age of digital payments that can be completed with your mobile phone.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#54

Post by maerF0x0 »

IMO there should be a CoL adjusted minimum livable wage across the country, and it should be illegal to pay a >18 year old less than what it takes to live on. And that should be calculated from the barest minimum living standards[1]. At a certain point it becomes unconscionable for a wealthy society not to provide pure commodities at their lowest cost of delivery to it's poorest. As we do that, tips should be eliminated too.

There's very few of us with a hard enough heart who'd say no to someone who asked for a glass of tap water, or to use the toilet. As a society advances other basic necessities should move into the common domain too. (And the wonderful thing about capitalism is it has driven down the real costs of most of these things to historically absurdly low prices eg a thrift store pants for $7 in the face of $15 minimum wage is cheap compared to history when it was normative to have only 2 sets of clothes)

[1]: I'm thinking like shared bedroom, thrift store clothes, rice + beans + costco, annual checkup + bare minimum health insurance, annual dental cleaning / bare minimum insurance, a mint mobile $15 a month cellphone plan, and a library card for entertainment and education. You're not thriving, and you're not a catastrophic burden on the system either.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#55

Post by hunter2_ »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #49
throw_m239339 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some cultures, people "tip" teachers, police officers, doctors, politicians, judges... you know where I'm going with that... I'm not saying tips should be banned but there certainly is a "cultural aspect" to tipping...

No, they don't. You're trying a false equivalency between a bribe and gratuity. A bribe happens before the service is provided and the service is contingent upon the bribe. Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided.

At counters, the tip happens before the service is provided, unless you're somehow basing the amount on the experience of ordering.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#56

Post by hoosieree »

alemanek wrote: post #16
throwaway48540 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty hard to do when the absolute majority of the sum of taxes is paid by poor people. Even if you taxed the rich at 99%, it would be short by orders of magnitude - and then of course you have to consider https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve Also, there's a distinction between people below the poverty line, and young people making little wages in their early jobs. Why shouldn't we tax the rich kid wo…

When you account for all taxes this may be true but for just income taxes it isn’t. According to the link below the bottom 50% makeup just 2.34% of income taxes paid. So, eliminating income taxes and maybe adding a return free filing option for the bottom 50% of households looks super doable. Source: https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxe...

Income taxes don't affect every person equally though. Plenty of Very Rich people earn zero income.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#57

Post by beaglesss »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #49
throw_m239339 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some cultures, people "tip" teachers, police officers, doctors, politicians, judges... you know where I'm going with that... I'm not saying tips should be banned but there certainly is a "cultural aspect" to tipping...

No, they don't. You're trying a false equivalency between a bribe and gratuity. A bribe happens before the service is provided and the service is contingent upon the bribe. Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided.

Tip 0 and see what kind of service you get the next time.

I used to work food delivery and naturally the customers ordering takeout at fancy restaurants would always tip 0 to the restaurant even if they tipped me for delivery.

I quickly found myself ignored by all the workers at those restaurants, orders take an hour extra to fill, no one talk to me, etc. eventually I learned to tip out of my own tip because my next service is contingent on the prior tip.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#58

Post by piperswe »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #49
throw_m239339 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some cultures, people "tip" teachers, police officers, doctors, politicians, judges... you know where I'm going with that... I'm not saying tips should be banned but there certainly is a "cultural aspect" to tipping...

No, they don't. You're trying a false equivalency between a bribe and gratuity. A bribe happens before the service is provided and the service is contingent upon the bribe. Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided.

I find it amusing that this definition of bribe and gratuity makes DoorDash "tips" actually be bribes, which is an apt description.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#59

Post by whartung »

websap wrote: post #47

We're moving to a world that most restaurants won't have servers taking your food and drinks order. This is already happening in Seattle, multiple spots are now counter style ordering, you order, get a number and someone just comes from the kitchen to deliver the food. Some of them also have a QR code associated with your number which you can scan to order follow up items. Tipping more than 10% for counter style orde…

The local McDonalds, when you walk in, you see 3 large screen order kiosks, and 2, essentially, empty counters. One with a register.

And that's it.

There's no beverage bar, no condiment bar, there MIGHT be napkins, but I can't recall.

You order from the kiosk, which has a cash machine to accept cash, and if its to eat in, grab a table tent and type in the number. Otherwise, you just take the number on the receipt. Eventually someone will bring it out on the other counter without the register and call out your number.

If you're eating in, eventually someone will come to deliver the food -- typically in a bag, just like everything else.

You could order at the counter, but there's no one in sight. You either have to just wait for someone to saunter by or shout out into the void.

Similarly, if you want a refill on your beverage. They'll happily give you one, again, if you can actually track down a worker.

It's quite a sterile experience. At least at the drive through you talk to people.

I understand that its a company wide goal to transition all of the restaurants to this model.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#60

Post by Pet_Ant »

nickfromseattle wrote: post #24
r00fus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to prevent corporations and the rich from taking advantage of this? ie, my job is $10k + rest in "tips"?

The easiest seems like who is paying the "tip". If it's your employer, it's taxable compensation. If it's a customer, than it could be a tip. Then there would probably be a bunch of sub-bullet points defining whether a tip is taxable depending on whether you have a direct relationship with the customer tipping you, whether the "tip" is mandatory, or at the discretion of the customer, are you in X roles (e.g. barista)…

Okay, I hire a contractor to remodel the bathroom and I pay $1k and $10k in tips. I am the client.
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