Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content • Hacker News Board

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#361

Post by gosub100 » Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 5:22 PM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #288

sangnoir wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN allows everyone with sufficient karma to vouch for dead comments (or flag comments), I suspect most of the comment-level moderation you see is crowdsourced to fellow commenters; a still-dead comment means most of those who see choose to keep it dead. HN is awesome because of the rules and moderation (including bans); any unmoderated forum devolves into a cesspit; and it only takes a surprisingly few bad apples to…

That's the gospel, for sure. However, look at the dead comments here and, for each, tell us why it would turn HN into a "cesspit."

Broken windows theory: actively moderating is precisely what keeps shit posters away. There's no gain from doing it when their posts are removed so they give up quickly.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#362

Post by BlueTemplar » Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 5:22 PM UTC

celdon25 wrote: post #198

Brian_K_White wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres no push back because only the uploader knows it even happened. The millions of other people who did not get to see that video never knew there was anything that was taken from them. Even after you start to hear about an example here & there, it still feels like an isolated and insignificant example. You as a viewer don't have any way to perceive the scale, the mass of what is being blocked and diverted and mod…

> but you have no way to see what that really means in it's totality. I think people would push back a lot if they could see that somehow. I’ve watched enough Mark Dice videos to know how bad it is, and I regret not taking the blue pill sometimes. He’s shown just about every notable case of it happening (with proof). Though he knows how to game the system to resist being taken offline and you could say it’s part of h…

Just stop using platforms. For video, use PeerTube (or similar).

This was a concern in 2009, but now, 15 years later, people using platforms have only themselves to blame. Stop being part of the problem !

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#363

Post by andy_ppp » Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 5:22 PM UTC

kansface wrote: post #313

andy_ppp wrote: post #109

I wonder if this is coming up just before the election because of the Harris campaign’s suggested policy of capital gains tax on unrealised gains for people who have over $100m in assets? I think this is a great idea personally given what these people are doing to avoid paying tax including taking out loans against their own share portfolios. Worth thinking about what people are willing to do to not pay billions of d…

> I think this is a great idea personally given what these people are doing to avoid paying tax I very strongly believe you to be wrong: 1. Unrealized gains is unworkable. Billionaires will spend tens or hundreds of millions yearly to avoid paying literally billions in taxes because the expected value is net positive. The IRS won't win chasing down money scattered across the globe. This is not a productive use of cap…

1. Capital gains tax is already essentially optional for the richest now with various tricks. Of course taxing people is difficult, are you saying because it’s hard let’s not bother?

2. Where will the capital go (all the best investments are in the US), if this happens lots of great businesses will be available to buy at a discount to people with smaller than $100m stock portfolios

3. Potentially true but I would still set up my business in the US and just pay the tax, if I make $100m it’s $20m for the government and I rate that as a great deal to be honest.

4. Why is a one off 20% tax going to lose founders control, this is only about companies post IPO.

5. IANAL are you?

6. If the rich continue to be able to accumulate wealth without paying taxes on it forever I think that is the road to serfdom personally. Taxation of the rich will make everyone better off. I pay over 50% tax in Europe, maybe if the rich were paying their share this could be reduced!

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#364

Post by gruez » Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

hnpolicestate wrote: post #348

zooq_ai wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN crowd like reddit leans massively progressive/democratic. As such any thinking outside normal or contrarian views are massively suppressed. Classic contrarian (to HN) around WFH, Capitalism, Elon Musk, Tesla, Regulation is downvoted and even flagged

The HN crowd is far right but they would never admit it. Most people are unaware of how political parties shift in composition and ideology over the decades. The contemporary American software engineer resembles the professional class Reagan Republicans who dominated the suburbs in the 80's and 90's.

>The HN crowd is far right

???

Is anyone who isn't a card carrying DSA member "far right"?

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#365

Post by alsetmusic » Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

hnpolicestate wrote: post #348

zooq_ai wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN crowd like reddit leans massively progressive/democratic. As such any thinking outside normal or contrarian views are massively suppressed. Classic contrarian (to HN) around WFH, Capitalism, Elon Musk, Tesla, Regulation is downvoted and even flagged

The HN crowd is far right but they would never admit it. Most people are unaware of how political parties shift in composition and ideology over the decades. The contemporary American software engineer resembles the professional class Reagan Republicans who dominated the suburbs in the 80's and 90's.

Center-right, I'd argue, but that's true of the Democratic party. HN is very far from far-right in that bigotry and racism isn't tolerated here (nor should they be). But HN is USA in origin and USA politics are further right than most of Europe.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#366

Post by JohnMakin » Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 5:24 PM UTC

hnpolicestate wrote: post #348

zooq_ai wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN crowd like reddit leans massively progressive/democratic. As such any thinking outside normal or contrarian views are massively suppressed. Classic contrarian (to HN) around WFH, Capitalism, Elon Musk, Tesla, Regulation is downvoted and even flagged

The HN crowd is far right but they would never admit it. Most people are unaware of how political parties shift in composition and ideology over the decades. The contemporary American software engineer resembles the professional class Reagan Republicans who dominated the suburbs in the 80's and 90's.

This observation is always highlighted by the absurdity of american politics when they describe candidates like Joe Biden as "far left" when on the european political spectrum (or even an absolute one, if such a thing exists) he'd almost certainly be on the right.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#367

Post by SkyBelow » Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 5:24 PM UTC

andy_ppp wrote: post #312

nomel wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s simpler than that. People here tend to enjoy, and have careers around, understanding complex systems. “Consideration” for rich people isn’t required for thinking about the possible impacts of this, especially when the government has a near perfect track record in eventually shifting policies down to the working class.

The impacts could be extremely positive, some people are starting to believe the very richest having an optional tax system in the US is bad for everyone.

There seems to be a simpler fix though, that avoids the major negative effects of the larger changes.

They take out loans and aren't taxed on it. But they have to pay taxes when they pay off the loans, and at that time they'll owe even more money meaning more stocks will have to be sold.

But wait, how are they avoiding that tax even then? Well they take out another loan. But eventually that stops. They can't take out infinite loans, so what is happening? When they die, there is some tax trickery that involves resetting the cost basis of assets, then selling them with 0 capital gains to pay off the loans. The simple fix is to only reset the values after the estate pays out, meaning that any assets sold to pay off any loans will have to pay the real tax on their value, and only afterwards is the cost basis reset when inheritors receive those assets.

That seems a much more minimally invasive change, and also seems much more in line with the intent of the existing tax code to begin with, as the cost basis should only reset for those inheriting and not for paying off existing debts.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#368

Post by hn-89019 » Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 5:25 PM UTC

hnpolicestate wrote: post #348

zooq_ai wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN crowd like reddit leans massively progressive/democratic. As such any thinking outside normal or contrarian views are massively suppressed. Classic contrarian (to HN) around WFH, Capitalism, Elon Musk, Tesla, Regulation is downvoted and even flagged

The HN crowd is far right but they would never admit it. Most people are unaware of how political parties shift in composition and ideology over the decades. The contemporary American software engineer resembles the professional class Reagan Republicans who dominated the suburbs in the 80's and 90's.

"Far right" as measured by a hardcore leftie, maybe. If you stand against illegal immigration, criticize superficial DEI "me-too" gestures that do nothing to solve the real issues underneath, or are moderately conservative in any other way, you will have you comments routinely downvoted into oblivion and will be called a Nazi and the second coming of Hitler. Not only in this place, it has become the the norm these days.

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#369

Post by zooq_ai » Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 5:25 PM UTC

hnpolicestate wrote: post #348

zooq_ai wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN crowd like reddit leans massively progressive/democratic. As such any thinking outside normal or contrarian views are massively suppressed. Classic contrarian (to HN) around WFH, Capitalism, Elon Musk, Tesla, Regulation is downvoted and even flagged

The HN crowd is far right but they would never admit it. Most people are unaware of how political parties shift in composition and ideology over the decades. The contemporary American software engineer resembles the professional class Reagan Republicans who dominated the suburbs in the 80's and 90's.

[flagged]

Re: Zuckerberg claims regret on caving to White House pressure on content

#370

Post by dilap » Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 5:26 PM UTC

BlueTemplar wrote: post #338

dilap wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spam is a real problem, but when your platform is doing things like disallowing linking to a NY Post article on the Hunter Biden laptop or mentioning the possibility that COVID originated from a lab-leak, then I think pretty clearly the term "censorship" is more apt than "moderation". Also, to the extent that a platform is surfacing content based on a friend or follow model, then that itself is intrinsically sufficie…

Sounds like it's the FBI's credibility that is shot - imagine Facebook had done nothing and it HAD been a Russian propaganda operation ?

I think it's completely reasonable for FB to take the position of "it is not our job to block links to newspapers".

Similarly I don't blame FB for failing to block links to the Steele dossier, even though I think it was bogus.