Why do the admins have to sit in a closet?
Have to? Almost all the admins I've known love to sit in closets :) (I was an admin for a few years so this is somewhat self-deprecating)
Joel on Software: The new Fog Creek Office
21–30 of 89 posts
Re: Joel on Software: The new Fog Creek Office
#22Better recruiting tool: Make an office that female developers want to work in, the male developers will follow.
I'm not sure recruiting desperate and socially akward dudes who are going to get all creepy weirdo on the female staff is the best recruitment strategy I've ever heard.
I have to keep reminding them that women usually do NOT want to hear about the problems they were having with their barcode scanner scanning in their comic book collections
Re: Joel on Software: The new Fog Creek Office
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure recruiting desperate and socially akward dudes who are going to get all creepy weirdo on the female staff is the best recruitment strategy I've ever heard.
I have to keep reminding them that women usually do NOT want to hear about the problems they were having with their barcode scanner scanning in their comic book collections
to be fair neither do i
Re: Joel on Software: The new Fog Creek Office
#24My envy on this place is mighty (and all this from a bug tracker?), but is tempered by more annoyance at the Javascript nightmare that is Picasa. Why can't I middle-click to open pictures in new windows? Because Google Breaks The Browser. Top.
Re: Joel on Software: The new Fog Creek Office
#25Why do the admins have to sit in a closet?
Apparently Joel doesn't know that all good sysadmins are also good programmers.
Re: Joel on Software: The new Fog Creek Office
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt it has a good ROI via recruiting, etc. Joel mentioned he spent more than a million on improving the interior design. No recruiting is going to make up for that, any time soon#. And in a few years Fog Creek will move to a different location again - at which point they'll have to build a new high end office. So really, this seems to be a case of spending money to improve quality of life. The other benefits, suc…
the costs are roughly $4000 per employee per year. That's maybe 15% of their salary, probably less. You think that top software engineering graduates in New York City make $26k per year? Recalibrate! Recalibrate! I think the number you're looking for is "less than 4%". Remember that the office-construction expenses can be massaged by accountants to reduce taxes on them, and that an employee's (e.g.) $80k salary costs…
> You think that top software engineering graduates in New York City make $26k per year? Recalibrate! Recalibrate!
Oops, mental typo. Thanks for the correction.
Re: Joel on Software: The new Fog Creek Office
#27Re: Joel on Software: The new Fog Creek Office
#28Glass whiteboard ! http://picasaweb.google.com/spolsky/FogCreekSNewOffice#52853...
Re: Joel on Software: The new Fog Creek Office
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt it has a good ROI via recruiting, etc. Joel mentioned he spent more than a million on improving the interior design. No recruiting is going to make up for that, any time soon#. And in a few years Fog Creek will move to a different location again - at which point they'll have to build a new high end office. So really, this seems to be a case of spending money to improve quality of life. The other benefits, suc…
I agree, but then of course, spending a shit ton of money just to make yourself feel better is one of the luxuries of not being beholden to outside investors. Between ludicrous offices and the 37s "4 days a week" plan, I'd probably go with 37s.
Heh, you just won't let go of that "beholden to outside investor" thing, will you?
Are you suggesting that investors keep startups from getting ludicrous office space? From my experience with well-funded dotcom startups, they all tend to spend staggering amounts on sexy office space. We're lightly funded, so we sure as hell didn't.
In any case, Joel isn't spending a shit ton-- he's spending ~4-6% of revenue, as he said. Decent investors would only involve themselves if you were spending an unreasonable amount of money. Joel could be up to his armpits in Series D financing and not have an investor blink at this expenditure.
(if it isn't obvious, I think it's a dumb expenditure for an unprofitable startup, and a fine expenditure for Joel)
Re: Joel on Software: The new Fog Creek Office
#30Why do the admins have to sit in a closet?
Why do the UI designers have to... wait a minute, there aren't any!
If he spent half the amount of money he spent on this amazing office for a kick ass UI team, he would increase sales by an enormous amount for Fogbugz. I know so many people who would switch if it wasn't so damn ugly and difficult to use. I don't think people use Lighthouse because it has better features.
Joel's priorities seem very odd to me.