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Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

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Re: Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

#41

Post by kreetx »

xienze wrote: post #27
throwing_away wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, there are people that think real innovation is happening in crypto, and they also make investments and pay taxes. If you search around for crypto tax software, you'll find there's actual demand from people that want to pay taxes on their crypto.

> you'll find there's actual demand from people that want to pay taxes on their crypto. I think that’s more of a “need to” thing rather than “want to”, yes even for the people that aren’t using crypto for criminal activity.

Paying taxes overall is a "need to" thing to most, so nothing new with regarding to crypto.

Re: Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

#42

Post by observationist »

OutOfHere wrote: post #14
bdcravens wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a group that's against the Federal Reserve, but that belief system tends to be congruent with the "taxation is theft" group

> the "taxation is theft" group Let's be real here. With compounding, total taxation takes away 90% of income. If that's not theft, I don't know what is. There would be an appropriate level of taxation that would be fair, perhaps 10%.

With compounding, the potential earnings of someone who is taxed but invests over 50 years of work compared to someone else that isn't taxed but does the same investments comes out to about 50% gains of the second over the first.

If someone is taxed and doesn't or can't save, or their retirement gets screwed up, or they make enough to get taxed but not enough to invest significantly, or finds themselves in any of a myriad of screwy situations, then they only make 5-7% by diligently saving up the same amount that the first two would have been investing year over year.

95% of their potential income is lost by not investing reasonably. If someone were magically able to not pay taxes, they gain 150% of the good-retirement investment and taxes scenario.

Given the constant nickel and diming, the gotchas, the shuffling of money back and forth, and the outsized impact on investment, I completely agree that a flat 10% absolute level of taxation, not a red cent over, would be reasonable. It's also super important to invest, and to keep dropping money into your investments over time that you never touch, just use a diverse and sensible fund, and don't pull it out until you retire.

Not only is it theft of the future, it's wasted and misspent in awful ways. Sure am glad all our representatives are getting so wealthy, though. Wonderful people, that lot.

Re: Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

#43

Post by baseballdork »

beaglesss wrote: post #39
zarzavat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without the government we'd be much, much worse off. Who is “we” here? In some countries tax revenue goes to improving services, in some countries it goes to the President’s brother-in-law, in some countries it goes to military incursions that are morally repugnant. Tax, like cryptocurrency, isn’t intrinsically good or bad. They are both tools that could be used for benevolent or malevolent purposes depending on wh…

That's why I'd argue each service should be 'taxed' at the point of use. If you like a road, pay the toll. If you like sewage, build a septic system or pay for treatment. If you want to help Ukraine, fly on over or donate to the cause.

Great idea. I can save on money by shitting in the street instead of paying for treatment. I'll just dump my trash as well. This way only things that everyone absolutely has to use, or things the fabulously wealthy want, will be funded. What could go wrong?

Re: Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

#44

Post by OutOfHere »

yuliyp wrote: post #35
OutOfHere wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "taxation is theft" group Let's be real here. With compounding, total taxation takes away 90% of income. If that's not theft, I don't know what is. There would be an appropriate level of taxation that would be fair, perhaps 10%.

Yes that's entirely the point. Ideally peoples' share of wealth should go down with time. Return on capital after taxes shouldn't enable people to continue growing their wealth relative to society forever. They should have to actually do work to earn more.

That's an opinion held by slavers. It most assuredly is antithetical to the opinion held by the people.

Re: Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

#45

Post by sddsdd »

surfingdino wrote: post #23

How much of the tax evasion would disappear if we could pay taxes on crypto in crypto? The fact that the regulators scare banks away from allowing transfers to/from crypto exchanges whilst the IRS and HMRC demand taxes to be paid in USD or GBP makes the space prone to non-compliance and stifles innovation. So, either support legitimate crypto businesses and exchanges or let me pay tax on my meme coin gains in meme co…

Privileging USD for tax payments is a big part of why USD has value. There is zero upside to the US to allow payments in anything else.

Re: Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

#46

Post by beaglesss »

baseballdork wrote: post #43
beaglesss wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I'd argue each service should be 'taxed' at the point of use. If you like a road, pay the toll. If you like sewage, build a septic system or pay for treatment. If you want to help Ukraine, fly on over or donate to the cause.

Great idea. I can save on money by shitting in the street instead of paying for treatment. I'll just dump my trash as well. This way only things that everyone absolutely has to use, or things the fabulously wealthy want, will be funded. What could go wrong?

Sure you could. In fact many do in places like San Francisco where regulations and taxes and construction costs are so high many end up homeless then poop all over the streets.

Where I live there is absolutely no public sewage and I built my own system and so did most my neighbors, because as it turns out in our low tax libertarian enclave of mostly poor people, the vast majority prefer 10k once every few decades on a septic system over living in shit or getting in feuds with their neighbors for shitting on their road or lawn (there are no public roads here thank god). Your paranoia turned out unfounded.

Re: Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

#47

Post by OutOfHere »

worik wrote: post #24
OutOfHere wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "taxation is theft" group Let's be real here. With compounding, total taxation takes away 90% of income. If that's not theft, I don't know what is. There would be an appropriate level of taxation that would be fair, perhaps 10%.

> With compounding, total taxation takes away >99% of income That does not compute. Perhaps you could explain that.

I haven't yet checked this yet for correctness, but the approach to go about doing such a calculation is at https://chatgpt.com/share/8145329b-b009-46f6-a9cf-7703f49588...

It says the answer is a 90% loss (not 99% or higher), which still is quite bad. Again, this is pending me doing the calculations myself.

Regarding taxes, a total tax burden of 50% was used to account for all taxes (income, sales, property, etc.)

Even this calculation by GPT doesn't take into account the "investment gain" taxes one would have to pay at the end, which would bring the loss percentage above 90.

Re: Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

#48

Post by baseballdork »

beaglesss wrote: post #46
baseballdork wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great idea. I can save on money by shitting in the street instead of paying for treatment. I'll just dump my trash as well. This way only things that everyone absolutely has to use, or things the fabulously wealthy want, will be funded. What could go wrong?

Sure you could. In fact many do in places like San Francisco where regulations and taxes and construction costs are so high many end up homeless then poop all over the streets. Where I live there is absolutely no public sewage and I built my own system and so did most my neighbors, because as it turns out in our low tax libertarian enclave of mostly poor people, the vast majority prefer 10k once every few decades on…

Ah, it’s the taxes and regulations that cause the homeless to shit on the street. Surely if there were pay toilets all over the Bay Area the homeless wouldn’t do that anymore.

Your “low tax libertarian enclave” where folks evidently can afford to drop $10k occasionally sure doesn’t sound like it’ll scale up to 12 million people.

Re: Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

#49

Post by beaglesss »

baseballdork wrote: post #48
beaglesss wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you could. In fact many do in places like San Francisco where regulations and taxes and construction costs are so high many end up homeless then poop all over the streets. Where I live there is absolutely no public sewage and I built my own system and so did most my neighbors, because as it turns out in our low tax libertarian enclave of mostly poor people, the vast majority prefer 10k once every few decades on…

Ah, it’s the taxes and regulations that cause the homeless to shit on the street. Surely if there were pay toilets all over the Bay Area the homeless wouldn’t do that anymore. Your “low tax libertarian enclave” where folks evidently can afford to drop $10k occasionally sure doesn’t sound like it’ll scale up to 12 million people.

It scales fine, you can have private waste treatment en masse. Why should someone pay for my shit? Why is it their fault if I poop? It makes no sense.

Also you can build your own septic for 5k if you do your own work. I'm honestly in shock you'd poop in the street to save the 40 or so a month it costs at worst, considering when I lived in the city I was billed sewage and it came out about the same as the amortized cost of my septic system. The only people pooping in the streets were the homeless or the odd mentally ill person. I realize people like you are the real problem who will poop on others stuff to save a buck, but that honestly seems a mental health issue that public sewage systems wont solve.

Re: Crypto tax evasion is 'pervasive'

#50

Post by baseballdork »

beaglesss wrote: post #49
baseballdork wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, it’s the taxes and regulations that cause the homeless to shit on the street. Surely if there were pay toilets all over the Bay Area the homeless wouldn’t do that anymore. Your “low tax libertarian enclave” where folks evidently can afford to drop $10k occasionally sure doesn’t sound like it’ll scale up to 12 million people.

It scales fine, you can have private waste treatment en masse. Why should someone pay for my shit? Why is it their fault if I poop? It makes no sense. Also you can build your own septic for 5k if you do your own work. I'm honestly in shock you'd poop in the street to save the 40 or so a month it costs at worst, considering when I lived in the city I was billed sewage and it came out about the same as the amortized co…

> It scales fine

How does this work in Manhattan? How about for a single apartment complex? It doesn’t scale. It works if you’re in a low density area benefiting from the taxes pulled from high density areas.

> Also you can build your own septic for 5k if you do your own work.

Something like 40% of Americans couldn’t field a $400 expense.

> I'm honestly in shock you'd poop in the street to save the 40 or so a month it costs at worst

You’re in shock after discussing a place where it happens?

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