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Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

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Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#341

Post by yfontana »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #308
manquer wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP is EU has become an open air museum and all the good companies are now either American or Chinese. > Boeing makes the comparison easy for Airbus. What else to compare against this claim ? Airbus is by no means perfect of course, but it is still miles ahead of the best the Americans or the Chinese have to offer in a very complex large scale industry. It is not just aerospace, even auto is still über competitive, Eu…

Tech companies are getting insanely large valuations (I work in tech, and I think they're absurd). Europe doesn't have many large public tech companies, therefore Europe looks bad in terms of the "industries of the future" Plus a bunch of angry USians really irritated by the anti-trust stuff the EU has been doing (DMA etc).

It's not even all tech either. Europe has some big players in silicon or biotech for example. It does however lack giants that introduced major disruptions in the way things are done, like cloud services, social networks, gig economy etc.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#342

Post by Gravityloss »

input_sh wrote: post #135
mardifoufs wrote: post #48

I don't get what's new about this apart from the typical EU related buzzwords. France alone already has OVH and Scaleway, which are actual cloud providers in the "AWS" sense, not just hosting providers. Like I get that this is part of the platform's marketing but I don't see the sovereignty (which is a rather cringy term imo, as it implies that something as big as the EU isn't sovereign) angles to this.

There's no way I could describe it without sounding conspiratorial, so I'm just gonna lean into it: imagine the EU-US relationship suddenly turning very hostile (like Russia-EU relationship already did), how long would it take before all of EU's tech suddenly stopped working? Not saying that's gonna happen or is even likely to happen, but I don't think investing money into bootstraping some sort of a backup is necess…

One historical example:

After the second world war, Europe was developing space launch capability (multiple governments and companies in Europe joined together to do this). USA said, don't waste your money on that, you can use American launchers. So it didn't continue. Some time later, European commercial sats that competed with American ones couldn't get launch opportunities on American rockets. So then Europe developed its own launcher.

EDITed to remove caveats, after checking that it really is accurate: https://www.inventingeurope.eu/knowledge/the-unfinished-symp...

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#343

Post by sebstefan »

There is hardly a company I trust less than Lidl in the realm of tech

"Case Study 12: Lidl’s €500 Million SAP Debacle" (2020): https://www.henricodolfing.com/2020/05/case-study-lidl-sap-d...

They're already generating revenue so congratulations to them, but would I put my infrastructure in their hands for the long run?...

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#345

Post by Numerlor »

mathverse wrote: post #141
lifestyleguru wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German shit is done in Poland, Romania, and Belarus, and for less than 50-60k EUR pa.

No longer true. 40-60k would be reasonable in those countries as well.

Eh I'm in s similar country and around 30k for a more senior position is the normal

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#346

Post by cryptonym »

singhrac wrote: post #200
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missing object storage kinda makes it a joke. Hetzner cloud is certainly useful for some things, but object storage is something I just assume any cloud would have in 2024. AWS launched it before EC2 even it's that valuable.

Out of curiosity are you operating at a scale where "MinIO on a Hetzner node" isn't a viable replacement? I totally believe that's possible, just curious about the use case.

Linode is quite cheap and comes with Object storage so you don't have to maintain a MinIO

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#347

Post by remram »

This is always hard to compare because cloud offerings never exactly match (some include storage with their VMs, some include IOPS with their capacity, some bill bandwidth) but at first glance, their compute is cheaper than OVH and their storage is more expensive than OVH.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#348

Post by fulafel »

haukem wrote: post #153

STACKIT is the Lidl cloud. Both companies are part of the Schwarz Gruppe. Their offering is here: https://www.stackit.de/en/ You have to be a company to make business with them. You can not just sign up, you have to contact them first. There was a discussion about STACKIT some years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30853778 I do not see anything about Gaia-X on their directly website, only when I search for…

Even the article doesn't claim any connection between Lidl and Gaia-X.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#349

Post by antonkochubey »

Numerlor wrote: post #345
mathverse wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No longer true. 40-60k would be reasonable in those countries as well.

Eh I'm in s similar country and around 30k for a more senior position is the normal

I'm in Latvia and senior developers are paid 60-90k here.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#350

Post by csomar »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #182
input_sh wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way I could describe it without sounding conspiratorial, so I'm just gonna lean into it: imagine the EU-US relationship suddenly turning very hostile (like Russia-EU relationship already did), how long would it take before all of EU's tech suddenly stopped working? Not saying that's gonna happen or is even likely to happen, but I don't think investing money into bootstraping some sort of a backup is necess…

> EU-US relationship suddenly turning very hostile The economies are too integrated for this scenario. There are big R&D centers of many American corporations in Europe, doing big part of their tech. They won’t move, instead in a very hypothetical “Russian” scenario they will change owner and continue to operate. I’m sure EU regions of AWS or GCP won’t cease to exist, for example. There are some services that are ope…

> The economies are too integrated for this scenario.

So are the US and Chinese economies. Yet, here we are.

> I’m sure EU regions of AWS or GCP won’t cease to exist, for example.

The servers, maybe. I highly doubt AWS will continue to provide access to its platform. Actually there is zero chance they do. The servers are not useful much without the AWS platform.

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