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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

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Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#791

Post by mdhb »

eviks wrote: post #788
mdhb wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it that op can’t make the claim but you magically can? How does that work?

The magic is all (in his claim) vs few (in mine). You don't need omniscience for the latter

Respectfully what the hell are you talking about?

They made a claim that Telegram are particularly unresponsive to legitimate requests from various law enforcement groups which as a statement goes isn’t particularly controversial.

You seemed to have implied that:

1. There is no way to know that.

2. “Others” cooperate even less.

Do you have inside knowledge or not?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#792

Post by mihaaly »

miohtama wrote: post #691
mihaaly wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not see in the list the 'did not allow us adding backdoor to their service' charge. Did I miss something?

This is one of the charges (according to French press): refusing to give French police unfettered access to Telegram user data and moderation. It’s French national law, not EU (though the EU will copy for sure). https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/whats-going-frances-onl... Also now they have added “because people watch football matches illegally on Telegram”. So they are going to throw everything at kitchen sink at…

It is still not backdoor, sorry, you are completely mistaken. They came - tried to come - in the front door openly (the expression of back door means completely different, just look it up and you will see) to catch criminals, doing well known and prominent criminal activity, but the Telegram decided to protect the criminals instead. You can try to smear in whatever imaginative reasons behind when the reason are in the front of your face, like it or not, it does not matter if you like it or not! Also how much people like the Telegram because 'it is soo user friendly and pretty', not in pair with serious crimes committed and aided there, completely not!

Also it is still the investigative phase but the suspicion is warranted completely.

I seriously do not understand low moral people shielding those helping criminals, do you really not knowing what are you doing, seriously, just because there is a - misleadingly presented - popular service there? Really? Very worrying the moral state of social media user masses.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#793

Post by vik0 »

d0mine wrote: post #704
vik0 wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope the US doesn't become like Europe (Europe in general, as I know it's not an actual untied enough polity at the moment) when it comes to free speech, and, come to think of it, in many, many other aspects as well. It may sound funny to read, especially if you're an American, but I do still see America as the city upon the hill. I've lived in America, and I'm currently in ( sigh ) Europe, but I wish to ret…

I envy your blind optimism.

Thanks, I guess

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#794

Post by coliveira »

lmm wrote: post #736
coliveira wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this flagging seems to be more for "cover your *ss" reasons, because the real criminals continue doing their business everyday.

> the real criminals continue doing their business everyday Any source for that? Media loves to blame banks for everything, but when you go into the details it always seems pretty marginal (e.g. the HSBC Mexico stuff).

It cannot be marginal because drug traffic, just as an example, moves billions of dollars every year. They certainly have schemes and someone in the banking system must be complying with these schemes. Every time the officials uncover one of these schemes, banks are miraculously not charged of anything and they don't even give back the profits of the illegal operation.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#795

Post by hcfman »

BeetleB wrote: post #376
smt88 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He refuses to implement backdoors as well. We have no way to know this, and (unlike Signal), Telegram doesn't give us best-effort assurances by doing things like open-sourcing its code.

> We have no way to know this Well, other than his arrest ;-)

Which is principle is meaningless

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#796

Post by hcfman »

jsheard wrote: post #86
saintfrancis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Meta cooperate with the authorities? Isn't Whatsapp supposed to be end-to-end encrypted?

Telegram is for the most part not end-to-end encrypted, one to one chats can be but aren't by default, and groups/channels are never E2EE. That means Telegram is privy to a large amount of the criminal activity happening on their platform but allegedly chooses to turn a blind eye to it, unlike Signal or WhatsApp, who can't see what their users are doing by design. Not to say that deliberately making yourself blind to…

Slightly offtopic. Why would telegram have chosen to not make it e2ee like this? I'm trying to see the motivation for this?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#797

Post by limit499karma »

walterbell wrote: post #592
limit499karma wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a very impressive guy. too bad he didn't name the oss libraries.

One could list OSS libraries (if any) that Telegram uses today, then diff against OSS libraries used by other E2EE messengers.

isn't only the client side oss? server side logs/libs is more likely. isn't it amazing 30 guys handle a billion users and who knows what sort of ddos is unleashed against them.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#798

Post by HDThoreaun »

lfmunoz4 wrote: post #526
pathless wrote: post #6

Telegram is genuinely the best general communication platform I have ever used, by far. I really hope he has a good lawyer and this doesn't end up getting essentially murdered for creating it. When you create something that is objectively great, everyone will use it - including bad actors.

I don't understand why anyone uses Telegram if it there is no proof that it is secure. Their code isn't open source?

Most people dont give a shit about security. Telegram is easier to use than signal and has more features because auto encryption makes stuff like public chats difficult.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#799

Post by lucasRW »

Interview of Durov from Carlson some time ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ut6RouSs0w

In the end, it is not the evil ones who arrested him for very evil reasons (Russia, Iran, etc), but the good democratic countries who did so for good inclusive progressive reasons.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#800

Post by HDThoreaun »

loa_in_ wrote: post #299
Retr0id wrote: post #9

I really hope this doesn't become an "encryption bad" cudgel. > The main accusation by EU authorities concerns Telegram’s encrypted messaging services, which were allegedly used to facilitate organised crime. One investigator stated that ‘Telegram has become the number one platform for organised crime over the years’, underlining the perceived link between the platform’s privacy features and criminal activities. It's…

For centuries snail mail was used to facilitate organized crime, yet nobody prosecutes post offices.

Because the post cooperates with law enforcement. The issue here isnt that criminals used telegram, it's that telegram didnt cooperate with the state. If you want to have a policy of non-cooperation you cant hold the unencrypted data.
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