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Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

blog.cryptographyengineering.com

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Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#451

Post by palotasb »

nox101 wrote: post #443
bryanlarsen wrote: post #34

Try the mud puddle test: log into your account on a new device using the password recovery flow. Can you see your old messages? If the answer is yes then law enforcement can too. https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2012/08/05/how-se...

I'm probably dumb, but why would that be proof? I upload encrypted backups to a cloud service provider (AWS, Google Cloud). I go to another computer, download them, use a key/password to decrypt them. Sure, I get it, you're typing in something that decrypts the data into their app. That's true of all apps including WhatsApp, etc... The only way this could really be secure is if you used a different app to the encrypt…

> > using the password recovery flow

> use a key/password

The previous poster intentionally mentioned password recovery flow. If you can gain access without your password, than law enforcement can too. If you could only gain access with your password, you could consider your data safe.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#452

Post by toofy »

theshrike79 wrote: post #430

I don't know why people get hung up on Telegram's encryption. Maybe they're trying to make it be something it isn't. Is Discord end to end encrypted, is IRC? Nope, does it make them useless? Again no. Same with Telegram, it's a chat tool where you can select your audience and have a good UX with native bot support. (like Discord and IRC). That's what I want, nothing more. If I want to plan a coup, I'd use something e…

because on their front page in giant font they call themselves private and secure and outright say “heavily encrypted”.

it’s their own fault. a better question might be:

why do they keep over and over crying when people call them out for endangering their users? it’s super odd.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#453

Post by yard2010 »

glitchc wrote: post #396
wruza wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those who need to dissociate with a number have anonymous sim cards in abundance. Costs around $2-5 a piece when ordered in bulk. That said, such high-tech operation is just a geeks fantasy about spies. When you cross the line where it becomes reality, you’re either a very big name with a sudden drug/rape history or a subject for waterboarding which is the most effective cryptoanalysis tool invented.

While this is a well-trodden stereotype, and it certainly has merit, not all crimes are Snowden-level crimes against the state. Felonies such as embezzlement, fraud and trafficking are often investigated by exposing the digital trail. Law enforcement most definitely do pull those records with a subpoena. It's often one of the first things done (pull all banking and phone records) and is often a key ingredient in a su…

If I'm not mistaken you can buy a special 888 number which works only for telegram from telegram

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#454

Post by [deleted] »

guappa wrote: post #438
p4bl0 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because Telegram is marketing itself as a secure messaging app, and because journalists continuously present it as such while discussing the arrest of its CEO.

I've only heard telegram presented as a messenger for criminals in western media.

[deleted]

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#455

Post by yard2010 »

devjab wrote: post #258
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #6

If telegrams encryption is so bad why is Pavel Durov under arrest? The arrest cites that he was not cooperating with authorities to crack down on various drug illegal activities on telegram. None of the other social networks have their ceos arrested. Is it simply that telegram is the only one without backdoors for five eyes? It seems to me the secret chat feature actually works too well?

I can give you some insight into why EU law enforcement and politicians dislike telegram. It’s not because they can’t snoop on you, it’s because Telegram fails to comply with moderation requests for channels where illegal content is shared. We had a nice scandal of sorts here in Denmark where a bunch of young men shared pictures of young women without consent. If you’re old enough to remember those old “rate this gir…

Haha Facebook worked with law enforcement to catch criminals. Who works with law enforcement to catch Facebook?

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#457

Post by growse »

daneel_w wrote: post #309
growse wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it follow that Signal knowing a phone number means they know who the identity that phone number represents is communicating with?

Every Signal account is represented by the phone number the user provided in order to receive their SMS activation code, and messages are not sent directly between users' clients/apps but relayed through Signal's systems.

Your original assertion "signal knows who is talking to whom" does not follow from "Signal relays the data".

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#458

Post by victorbjorklund »

wkat4242 wrote: post #164
bryanlarsen wrote: post #34

Try the mud puddle test: log into your account on a new device using the password recovery flow. Can you see your old messages? If the answer is yes then law enforcement can too. https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2012/08/05/how-se...

> If the answer is yes then law enforcement can too. Is it technically possible for them to see it: yes Does Telegram let them see it: I don't think so. That seems to be the core issue around Durov being arrested. They probably should implement E2EE for everything. Then they will have a good excuse not to cooperate, because they simply don't have the data.

they probably share it with russian authorities. Just look now. russia is allowing protests in favour of him (they only allow protest they support) and they arrested a french citizen on fake drug charges right after

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#459

Post by refurb »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #34

Try the mud puddle test: log into your account on a new device using the password recovery flow. Can you see your old messages? If the answer is yes then law enforcement can too. https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2012/08/05/how-se...

I know this is getting off-topic, but all the discussion about encryption missing an important weakness in any crypto algorithm - the human factor.

I found it interesting that countries like Singapore haven’t introduced requirements for backdoors. They are notorious for passing laws for whatever they want as the current government has a super majority and court that tends to side with the government.

Add on top Telegram is used widely in illegal drug transactions in Singapore.

What’s the reason? They just attack the human factor.

They just get invites to Telegram groups, or they bust someone and force them to handover access to their Telegram account. Set up surveillance for the delivery and boom crypto drug ring is taken down. They’ve done it again and again.

One could imagine this same technique could be used for any Telegram group or conversation.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#460

Post by victorbjorklund »

steelbrain wrote: post #320
empath75 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will they let _US_ law enforcement see it? No. Will they let Russian? Of course.

Source?

recent support. kremlin yesterday arranged big protests in moscow demanding his release. kremlin yesterday arrested the nephew of the french ambassador claim he was dealing drugs (claiming he carried a package of heroin marked with the label "for distribution in russia" as if all drug dealers put their intentions in writing) clearly to try to trade him
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