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Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

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Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#91

Post by graftak »

stainablesteel wrote: post #65
adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #57

The EU has proven itself time and time again to be so openly anti-innovation that it’s difficult to even take legislation like the Digital Services Act seriously. None of my products operate in the EU and for good reason. I have no interest in playing the legal games required to support them. I wish I more fully understood the cultural differences that make this anti-innovation stance so prevalent in the EU.

the EU may as well go back to the stone age, it seems to be what they want

Funny that you say that because to a European the US worker and consumer rights seem very archaic. There just might be more to life than tech innovation and startups.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#92

Post by niemandhier »

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #57

The EU has proven itself time and time again to be so openly anti-innovation that it’s difficult to even take legislation like the Digital Services Act seriously. None of my products operate in the EU and for good reason. I have no interest in playing the legal games required to support them. I wish I more fully understood the cultural differences that make this anti-innovation stance so prevalent in the EU.

Nothing physical I own was made in the US, at least not visibly. I checked last year due to a bet, everything is from Asia or the EU.

For HN innovation often means digital stuff, but the world remains a physical space.

The EU is a decent place to start non digital high tech companies. Germany was at the cusp of becoming a biotech powerhouse, the war and energy price increases killed that.

But these are external factors, so I think it counts as a counter example.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#93

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

NetOpWibby wrote: post #81
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why Canada also is one of the worst countries in G8 and maybe the most mediocre countries when it comes to actual startup investment and building something new for the world and growing the share of the pie. On top of that, they have a horrible system where nobody can get a doctor. Everybody has to pay double to get a block of butter and housing is so high that you get a whole neighborhood in the US for that p…

American here. I was under the impression that Canadian healthcare was incredible. At least, that's what I've been told for years by randos online.

Trust me I spent a huge portion of my life there. The reason why I speak so much against Canada these days is because the country is delusional. Nobody wants to take any risks and yet they think things will always fall into place for them.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#94

Post by thefz »

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #57

The EU has proven itself time and time again to be so openly anti-innovation that it’s difficult to even take legislation like the Digital Services Act seriously. None of my products operate in the EU and for good reason. I have no interest in playing the legal games required to support them. I wish I more fully understood the cultural differences that make this anti-innovation stance so prevalent in the EU.

I instead am glad that this far west is finally regulated.

If you do not wish to respect customer privacy laws, I am ok with you not wanting to sell your product in the EU.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#95

Post by thefz »

stainablesteel wrote: post #65
adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #57

The EU has proven itself time and time again to be so openly anti-innovation that it’s difficult to even take legislation like the Digital Services Act seriously. None of my products operate in the EU and for good reason. I have no interest in playing the legal games required to support them. I wish I more fully understood the cultural differences that make this anti-innovation stance so prevalent in the EU.

the EU may as well go back to the stone age, it seems to be what they want

For many indices the US is a third world country.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#97

Post by throwaway48540 »

niemandhier wrote: post #92
adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #57

The EU has proven itself time and time again to be so openly anti-innovation that it’s difficult to even take legislation like the Digital Services Act seriously. None of my products operate in the EU and for good reason. I have no interest in playing the legal games required to support them. I wish I more fully understood the cultural differences that make this anti-innovation stance so prevalent in the EU.

Nothing physical I own was made in the US, at least not visibly. I checked last year due to a bet, everything is from Asia or the EU. For HN innovation often means digital stuff, but the world remains a physical space. The EU is a decent place to start non digital high tech companies. Germany was at the cusp of becoming a biotech powerhouse, the war and energy price increases killed that. But these are external facto…

How many of the things were designed by Americans? The actual place of manufacturing matters less than who owns and is capable of producing the design and manufacturing process. For example chips - I absolutely don't believe you don't have an American CPU. If you have Intel, it was made in USA, but even if not, it's not like the Chinese, Taiwanese or Koreans could just go and produce an AMD or Apple-comparable chip, just having a factory to produce a chip is very far from actually producing a competitive chip. Samsung is trying but Exynos, while a good chip by itself, is definitely not comparable to Qualcomm.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#98

Post by miohtama »

miohtama wrote: post #42
aa_is_op wrote: post #2

"It is absurd to claim that a platform or its owner are responsible for abuse of that platform." What an utter ridiculous and misleading statement from the company that LITERALLY REFUSES to take down drug and malware shops from its platform. There's tens of academic studies that have looked at this problem and many of them have Telegram as the worst offender. Here's just one of the studies: https://cyber.fsi.stanford…

Telegram does not refuse take down content. I have reported scams, phishing, selling stolen credit cards and such to Telegram and they have all taken down. Maybe not in 24h, but still taken down. Also from your study: “Our investigation finds that large networks of accounts, purportedly operated by minors, are openly advertising SG-CSAM for sale on social media. Instagram has emerged as the primary platform for such…

Here is now an article that has some numbers on Telegram moderation and policies

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41354528

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#99

Post by niemandhier »

throwaway48540 wrote: post #97
niemandhier wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing physical I own was made in the US, at least not visibly. I checked last year due to a bet, everything is from Asia or the EU. For HN innovation often means digital stuff, but the world remains a physical space. The EU is a decent place to start non digital high tech companies. Germany was at the cusp of becoming a biotech powerhouse, the war and energy price increases killed that. But these are external facto…

How many of the things were designed by Americans? The actual place of manufacturing matters less than who owns and is capable of producing the design and manufacturing process. For example chips - I absolutely don't believe you don't have an American CPU. If you have Intel, it was made in USA, but even if not, it's not like the Chinese, Taiwanese or Koreans could just go and produce an AMD or Apple-comparable chip,…

You misunderstood, I never intended to say the US was an irrelevant economy, that would be foolish. I just wanted to point out, that the HN audience tends to see things from a very US centric perspective and therefore likes to point out that their own approaches would not be feasible in the EU.

However, while struggling at many points, the EU is far from becoming economically irrelevant as the top poster sees to believe.

To address your arguments on intellectual property being as important as actual manufacturing, I tend to differ.

3 points: 1. This type of thinking is exactly the reason why china became a super power. 2. Intellectual property is only as good as the power to enforce it, if Russia had the factories to produce the tech they need for the war, nothing could stop them from just from doing it. 3. In economies build on intellectual property and outsourcing, wealth concentrates in the hand of the patent holders.

Neither of which seems desirable to me. I do not begrudge the Chinese their economic success, but the events in the north Filipin Sea are concerning.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#100

Post by throwaway48540 »

niemandhier wrote: post #99
throwaway48540 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of the things were designed by Americans? The actual place of manufacturing matters less than who owns and is capable of producing the design and manufacturing process. For example chips - I absolutely don't believe you don't have an American CPU. If you have Intel, it was made in USA, but even if not, it's not like the Chinese, Taiwanese or Koreans could just go and produce an AMD or Apple-comparable chip,…

You misunderstood, I never intended to say the US was an irrelevant economy, that would be foolish. I just wanted to point out, that the HN audience tends to see things from a very US centric perspective and therefore likes to point out that their own approaches would not be feasible in the EU. However, while struggling at many points, the EU is far from becoming economically irrelevant as the top poster sees to beli…

I don't disagree with your points and I'm not actually a big fan of patents or intellectual property.

However, look at China - they don't care much about the intellectual property rights, they are okay with industrial espionage and reverse engineering, and yet their chips are not even close - even though their fabs aren't too bad. The fab is just not the whole story.

The EU really is becoming irrelevant, more and more, and it's accelerating. 10-20 yeaes ago the US and EU economies were comparable - and that was when the US anti-worker and anti-consumer situation was worse than today, they're improving on this metric, in some cases faster than the EU. The EU energy policy based on ideology instead of facts is going to be the last straw. I'm saying this as an EU citizen.

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