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Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

blog.cryptographyengineering.com

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Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#421

Post by zuhsetaqi »

nobita wrote: post #412
jxi wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal has probably the worst UX of any messaging app. It also used to require sharing phone numbers to add contacts, which imo is already a privacy violation. Telegram is fast, responsive, gets frequent updates, has great group chat, tons of animated emojis, works flawlessly on all desktop and mobile platforms, has great support for media, bots, and a great API, allows edits and deleting messages for all users, and…

> It also used to require sharing phone numbers to add contacts, which imo is already a privacy violation. https://signal.org/blog/phone-number-privacy-usernames/ Signal doesn't require sharing of phone numbers

> Signal doesn't require sharing of phone numbers

It does require a phone number to create an account. That’s the reason I do not consider it being private because at least in Germany a phone number can only be activated by using a personal ID card which it is connected to.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#422

Post by zuhsetaqi »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #375
icepat wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's in Telegram that you don't see in Signal? Honest question, I only use Signal rather than Telegram.

> What's in Telegram that you don't see in Signal? The first feature that comes to mind for me is being able to use multiple devices. Signal only allows using it with one phone. If you add a second device, the first one stops working. You can use a computer and a phone, but not multiple phones. Telegram supports this without any issues. I still struggle to understand this limitation.

It’s easy for telegram to support this since it’s not e2ee. When you create a so called private chat on telegram, this chat is also only available on the device you created it on.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#424

Post by zuhsetaqi »

tpoacher wrote: post #229
icepat wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's in Telegram that you don't see in Signal? Honest question, I only use Signal rather than Telegram.

This is one of those questions where it's hard to answer but it's obvious once you use it. What's the difference between a fiat and a ferrari? What's the difference between CentOS and Linux Mint? What's the difference between a macdonalds and a michelin burger? I have friends and groups on both platforms. On Signal, I'm basically just sending messages (and only unimportant one, like, when are we meeting. Sending medi…

> Perhaps that's why I find the whole "Telegram encryption" discussion baffling to be honest. For me, it's just one of Telegram's many extra features you can use. You don't have to use it, but it's there if you want to. Well, as soon as you crate all e2ee chat most features are gone for this chat. It doesn’t even sync on multiple devices. And e2ee is not available for group chats.

It’s more like they implemented it to check a box …

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#425

Post by [deleted] »

SXX wrote: post #307
skeledrew wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram currently has very intuitive and snappy search, even in very active groups with years of content. That's because the heavy lifting is done by the server. Think that'd still be possible if there was no way for the server to process the data?

PCs and phones been fast enough to have snappy search on text data for years now. Is "grep" not snappy enough for you?

[deleted]

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#426

Post by NayamAmarshe »

codedokode wrote: post #383
maqp wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the dangerous part. It's a messaging app that took in the function of a social media platform. It did so without robust security features like end-to-end encryption yet it advertised itself as heavily encrypted. Like Green stated in his blog post, users expect that to mean only recipient can read what you say, i.e. end-to-end encryption. Telegram would be fine if it advertised itself as a public square of the…

> It's a messaging app that took in the function of a social media platform. It did so without robust security features like end-to-end encryption yet it advertised itself as heavily encrypted. Do you want to say that social networks must implement E2E? Personally I think it is a good idea, but existing social networks and dating apps do not implement it so Telegram is not obliged to do it as well. As for promises of…

> It looks like the bar is set different for Telegram compared to other companies.

I too find it disingenuous. Many people here support a monopoly and privacy nightmare like WhatsApp but somehow, a closed-box implementation of E2EE is automatically better than an app with a proven track record of not selling the user data.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#428

Post by zaik »

nrr wrote: post #135
chadsix wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you have to reason about how the operator will handle legal threats, you shouldn't bother reasoning about the messenger at all. That's true. You need to run your own platform people. XMPP is plenty simple, plenty powerful, and plenty safe -- and even your metadata is in your control. Just self host. There's no excuse in 2024. Wake up people! Why should the arrest of someone else affect YOU?

"You need to run your own platform people." What problem does this solve? I'm someone who's been on the business end of a subpoena for a platform I ran, and narcing on my friends under threat of being held in contempt is perhaps the worst feeling I'm doomed to live with. "XMPP is ..." not the solution I'd recommend, even with something like OMEMO. Is it on by default? Can you force it to be turned on? The answer to b…

> The answer to both of those is, as it turns out, "no"

This is not true, it depends on the client. Conversations has OMEMO enabled per default.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#429

Post by hkpack »

codedokode wrote: post #393
ummonk wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the correct default. Every day users are far more likely to accidentally lose their data than to run into government snooping.

If that is the correct default then why Telegram is blamed for having non-E2E chats by default? Maybe they also care about users who can accidentally lose their conversations. When Apple does it, it is good, but when Telegram or TikTok do the same, it is bad and not secure.

Because Apple is not in the business of hosting public discussion forums.

There is no crime in implementing or not of different encryption schemes.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#430

Post by theshrike79 »

I don't know why people get hung up on Telegram's encryption. Maybe they're trying to make it be something it isn't.

Is Discord end to end encrypted, is IRC? Nope, does it make them useless? Again no.

Same with Telegram, it's a chat tool where you can select your audience and have a good UX with native bot support. (like Discord and IRC).

That's what I want, nothing more.

If I want to plan a coup, I'd use something else of course.

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