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Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

reuters.com

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Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#61

Post by patrick451 »

billybuckwheat wrote: post #3

I don't live or work in any of those places, but I've been ignoring work emails and calls after hours for a long time. Helps that 1) I don't have a work phone, 2) apps that my company uses on my personal phone, and 3) never log into the company network or services on my own laptop. In the few instances when I was called out about it, I asked Could the message/call have waited until the following morning/Monday? The a…

I have paging app installed my on phone, and that's it. If it is really, truly urgent they will page me. I have never been paged. Nobody has ever complained.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#62

Post by nine_zeros »

steelframe wrote: post #39

I've dabbled in management a few times in my career. This meant attending manager-only meetings and trainings. I'll never forget one time when a manager in a focus group said something along the lines of, "The tech sector is going through a rough patch, so we can turn the screws on our employees and they'll have to take it because they will have a hard time trying to find a job somewhere else." This is at a company w…

> After I picked my jaw up off the floor I realized I simply lacked the scruples I'd need to be "one of them."

This is the reason why I always tell young engineers to treat companies with utmost business-only mentality.

It's not that all managers are bad. It's that the company rewards psychopathic behaviors - that aren't easily apparent to humble people.

Companies are merely out there squeezing and exploring employees. Employees should feel free to return the favor.

In short, Fuck the corporations. They fired the first shot.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#63

Post by Prcmaker »

girvo wrote: post #12
Prcmaker wrote: post #7

With getting no overtime, no time off in lieu, and managers perpetually confusing a 'problem' with an 'emergency', I'm glad to see this happen. If it will actually make a difference though, I'm yet to be convinced.

I mean the FWC can straight up fine the company, and in general our commissions & ombudsmans are pretty decently run. It'll have an effect, I'm sure.

I would like to see that happen, however, the current available guidance from FWC is worded very with a vast deal of of flexibility in it, and is highly open to interpretation. A manager may, in theory, decide any person responsible for any task may be contacted outside of hours. I've not seen anything truly restrictive.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#64

Post by Insanity »

warbeforepeace wrote: post #40
PlunderBunny wrote: post #24

Maybe we should think of these things as employment flags? There's no right-to-disconnect in my country, but sometime this year my boss started putting "I don’t expect a response to this email outside of your normal working hours." on the end of his email signature. I might not be earning FAANG money, but it's just another sign I'm working for a 'good' company.

I work for FAANG and have had one page outside of working hours over that last 12 months. I do not respond to emails on weekends or evenings. I do not turn my work laptop on during vacation at all. I leave at home in a safe.

Totally different experience here working for FAANG, at least as it pertains to pages. For emails / slack etc I found it easy to ignore while working as an engineer, but much harder now in a management role. Even entirely disconnecting when going on vacation can be tough.

That said it is mostly self imposed. Over the past 2 years it was rarely the expectation to work outside regular hours (but did happen).

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#65

Post by selcuka »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #54
dopylitty wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But completely eliminating planned on-call rotations is not part of the goal. It certainly should be. You want your app supported 24x7 then pay for three shifts. If the government won’t make it a law then IT workers can make it a demand when they unionize.

Sounds like a great deal for the lucky 1/3 of developers who get assigned the day shift, but isn't it pretty rough for the majority? I'd much rather keep a normal schedule and get woken up every once in a while than work 5pm-1am or 1am-9am.

> I'd much rather keep a normal schedule and get woken up every once in a while than work 5pm-1am or 1am-9am.

It would be in the contract you'd sign when you accept the job. It's not like your current workplace will suddenly change the policy and force you to work at night. The world is already full of places with night shift jobs, and you are not currently working at one of those places.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#66

Post by nine_zeros »

I think a much favorable law should be that employers must automatically log after hours overtime and pay for such overtime for ALL employees besides the C-Suite.

Aka, any communication sent to employees MUST be billed to the company. The company can figure out if they want to pay ALL employees overtime pay or shut down their communication systems after 5 pm.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#67

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

selcuka wrote: post #65
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a great deal for the lucky 1/3 of developers who get assigned the day shift, but isn't it pretty rough for the majority? I'd much rather keep a normal schedule and get woken up every once in a while than work 5pm-1am or 1am-9am.

> I'd much rather keep a normal schedule and get woken up every once in a while than work 5pm-1am or 1am-9am. It would be in the contract you'd sign when you accept the job. It's not like your current workplace will suddenly change the policy and force you to work at night. The world is already full of places with night shift jobs, and you are not currently working at one of those places.

Why isn't it like that? If my company decided to follow a new rule that nobody can be oncall after hours, wouldn't they have to force at least 2 engineers from each oncall rotation into the new shifts? Even if I escape being one of those 2, shouldn't I expect to have 66% fewer day shift opportunities in the future?

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#68

Post by tagh »

ludston wrote: post #60

My personal experience is that Australia doesn't have a huge problem with this generally. But mileage may vary. If it were a huge problem then vested interests would lobby fiercely against the law, and it seemed to pass without much challenge or comment from the public here. This law might seem like a big deal if you're working in a place without labour protection laws, and therefore you're used to constant abuse fro…

I also personally haven't had issues with this in Australia, but have seen it happen to friends who work in legal (many times).

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#69

Post by guidedlight »

Prcmaker wrote: post #7

With getting no overtime, no time off in lieu, and managers perpetually confusing a 'problem' with an 'emergency', I'm glad to see this happen. If it will actually make a difference though, I'm yet to be convinced.

It will be most interesting how this applies to teachers, who often have to prepare lessons and mark work outside of hours.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#70

Post by toomuchtodo »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not stop an employer from potentially disciplining or firing you. Laws do, because they bind. Implicit contracts and hope are not a strategy, with regards to worker rights and protections.

What stops my employer from potentially disciplining or firing me is first of all, that I am good at what I do, and second that I negotiate from a position of strength. If my employer wants me to work off hours, I mean maybe I will, if I don't have anything going on, and I'll take some time the next day where I won't work as compensation for doing that, I won't ask permission. If I do have something going on, I'll sa…

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