Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 449 posts

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#21

Post by whatindaheck »

nwbort wrote: post #10

Yes, but 'Employers should be able to justify contacting professionals after hours based on common contract clauses that say a worker’s high salary includes reasonable overtime'. See: https://www.afr.com/work-and-careers/workplace/the-right-to-...

Go to college and get an education so you ~~can make a good living~~ have the opportunity to work more hours.

I understand this should hopefully help low wage earners that are taken advantage of. That’s great. The US, my country, could really take some inspiration here. But why are we rolling back the achievements of the standardized 40 hour work week for a certain group of people?

It feels like this is pitting the poor against the middle class. All the while the wealthiest of wealthiest are relaxing in yachts complaining that their grocery baggers can’t be called in to work overtime.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#22

Post by nomilk »

Another 'good in theory' idea. Trying to run a business in Australia is 'death by a thousand paper cuts'. Far too many rules. Letting individuals interact freely creates good outcomes 90+% of the time. Most of these rules are cost-benefit negative because the administrative burden of adherence exceeds the benefit of the new rule. Politicians and govt departments like them though; they get to put a dot-point on their list of achievements.

Unfortunately Australia has become a business-backwater (the upper bound of our capabilities is to dig stuff out of the ground and ship it overseas).

Sorry if this sounds negative, but every rule - however well-intentioned - steals attention and creativity away from entrepreneurs, slows the economy, drives up prices, reduces customer service, and benefits large incumbents who can withstand the burden.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#23

Post by sfpotter »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not stop an employer from potentially disciplining or firing you. Laws do, because they bind. Implicit contracts and hope are not a strategy, with regards to worker rights and protections.

What stops my employer from potentially disciplining or firing me is first of all, that I am good at what I do, and second that I negotiate from a position of strength. If my employer wants me to work off hours, I mean maybe I will, if I don't have anything going on, and I'll take some time the next day where I won't work as compensation for doing that, I won't ask permission. If I do have something going on, I'll sa…

Sounds like you live in a world of incredible privilege. Not everyone is so lucky.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#24

Post by PlunderBunny »

Maybe we should think of these things as employment flags?

There's no right-to-disconnect in my country, but sometime this year my boss started putting "I don’t expect a response to this email outside of your normal working hours." on the end of his email signature.

I might not be earning FAANG money, but it's just another sign I'm working for a 'good' company.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#25

Post by Aurornis »

dopylitty wrote: post #14
selcuka wrote: post #11

> To cater for emergencies and jobs with irregular hours, the rule still allows employers to contact their workers, who can only refuse to respond where it is reasonable to do so. This clause pretty much invalidates the rest of the rule. Why should an employee need to justify their inability (or unwillingness) to respond? I can understand the "jobs with irregular hours", but otherwise shouldn't it be a best effort th…

This only makes sense if emergencies are strictly defined. For instance "don't come to the office there's a bear inside" is an emergency. "the crud app you support fell over" is not an emergency. If the latter is an emergency to the company they should staff for 24/7 support, not rely on exploiting people during their off hours to provide free support.

> "the crud app you support fell over" is not an emergency.

I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed to learn that situations impacting business-critical operations would be considered emergencies.

The assumption that Australia just outlawed the concept of having an on-call rotation is not supported by the article.

The article says requiring an employee to be on-call 24/7 for general purposes would indeed be illegal.

There was another example that someone could not be required to come in for a surprise shift with only a few hours of notice overnight.

But completely eliminating planned on-call rotations is not part of the goal.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#26

Post by joshgermon »

nomilk wrote: post #22

Another 'good in theory' idea. Trying to run a business in Australia is 'death by a thousand paper cuts'. Far too many rules. Letting individuals interact freely creates good outcomes 90+% of the time. Most of these rules are cost-benefit negative because the administrative burden of adherence exceeds the benefit of the new rule. Politicians and govt departments like them though; they get to put a dot-point on their…

If you rely on exploiting the fact that your employee does not have the right to ignore your call outside of hours, your business shouldn't exist. What kind of take is this? It says it gives them the right to ignore, not to sue the business if they do call.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#27

Post by dabiged »

nomilk wrote: post #22

Another 'good in theory' idea. Trying to run a business in Australia is 'death by a thousand paper cuts'. Far too many rules. Letting individuals interact freely creates good outcomes 90+% of the time. Most of these rules are cost-benefit negative because the administrative burden of adherence exceeds the benefit of the new rule. Politicians and govt departments like them though; they get to put a dot-point on their…

I have to respectfully disagree here. You place far too much stead in "individuals freely interacting" and none in "micromanaging bosses constantly hassling you at ridiculous hours for pissant assignments that can wait until the morning".

My experience in working at Australian businesses, especially as an IC, is that there is far too much of the latter, and far to little of the former. This is especially true the younger the reporting staff member is.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#29

Post by nomilk »

joshgermon wrote: post #26
nomilk wrote: post #22

Another 'good in theory' idea. Trying to run a business in Australia is 'death by a thousand paper cuts'. Far too many rules. Letting individuals interact freely creates good outcomes 90+% of the time. Most of these rules are cost-benefit negative because the administrative burden of adherence exceeds the benefit of the new rule. Politicians and govt departments like them though; they get to put a dot-point on their…

If you rely on exploiting the fact that your employee does not have the right to ignore your call outside of hours, your business shouldn't exist. What kind of take is this? It says it gives them the right to ignore, not to sue the business if they do call.

Employees benefit from calls out of hours. How? The employer is able to offer better service to customers, and make more money, and the employee can negotiate a higher salary from the more profitable business. Employees who are inflexible cannot offer the same level of service to their employer and its customers; they'll on-average be paid less and measures like this increase production costs, making goods and services slightly more expensive.

This law reduces the extent to which flexible employees can add (and extract, via hight salary!) value, and the extent to which customers receive timely service.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#30

Post by joshgermon »

Keep in mind all the low-income employees who are harassed after work for trivial reasons that can absolutely wait by power-trip managers who will now feel a tiny bit more empowered to say no than they did yesterday. I think it's a great thing even though it doesn't benefit me directly.
Post reply on HN