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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

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Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#671

Post by wildzzz »

walterbell wrote: post #581
medion wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal built by the US government? Is there any more actual information on this claim?

Signal's early funding source is public record, https://www.opentech.fund/projects-we-support/supported-proj... Double Ratchet [1] is also used by WhatsApp (2B+ users) and IETF MLS [2] standard for E2EE group messaging. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm [2] https://www.ietf.org/blog/mls-secure-and-usable-end-to-end-e...

The US government likes funding encrypted communication channels because it helps destabilize the kinds of dictators that eavesdrop on dissidents.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#672

Post by EasyMark »

jeroenhd wrote: post #140
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are stored in plaintext on telegram servers FYI, this is a totally misleading and false claim. Telegram uses the MTProto 2.0 Cloud algorithm for non-secret chats[1][2]. In fact, it uses a split-key encryption system and the servers are all stored in multiple jurisdictions. So even Telegram employees can't decrypt the chats, because you'd need to compromise all the servers at the same time. Telegram's algorithm…

> So even Telegram employees can't decrypt the chats I very much doubt that. If Durov wanted to, they could decrypt all of those messages. That fancy encryption system is worthless when someone can hijack the session of any of the users in a chosen group. This is a risk in many crypto messengers, but those usually come with optional key verification whereas Telegram doesn't have that outside of encrypted one-on-one c…

This is likely why the grabbed Durov, he has the keys to the kingdom. Telegram is a remarkably small company and not a 800lb gorilla and it would be very easy for him to provide whatever they need if he folds.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#673

Post by EasyMark »

fsflover wrote: post #603
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> them infiltrating the servers to know everything about anyone involved That's not a possibility. Split-key encryption doesn't allow such a thing to happen.

Can you be more specific how the split-key encryption would prevent the Telegram CEO from reading all chats and users' info?

That’s my concern as well, maybe none of the devs have the capability, but if -anyone- does it’s Durov, so why not just grab him under false pretenses and throw the book at him, trying to scare him into compliance with anything they want or face the rest of his life in the worse French prison they can find for him.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#674

Post by [deleted] »

smt88 wrote: post #536
calgarymicro wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrest tells us that he said no to one country, it doesn't say much about all the others.

Russian govt officials are protesting his arrest. When an authoritarian govt is calling for the release of someone who runs a "private" messenger, it suggests they have a back door. Otherwise they tend to oppose all private messaging.

[deleted]

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#675

Post by SergeAx »

devman0 wrote: post #99

A lot of really terrible takes in this comment section. Telegram didn't have encrypted groups by default, and telegram possessed a lot of content on their servers that they had been made aware was illegal and didn't cooperate. Nothing more, nothing less. The comparisons to other providers is off base because either other providers are cooperating more when they possess actionable, unencrypted information and taking s…

This is a fantastic case of hypocrisy here. I personally see Facebook ads for illegal drugs at least once a week, and nothing happens. I even stopped reporting it because it was obviously pointless. Why? Because Zuck is "our son of bitch".

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#676

Post by p2detar »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #133
mpeg wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is no longer true, whatsapp have taken steps [0] to make their e2ee auditable and honestly I disagree with the idea that no e2ee is better than closed source e2ee. I'm not sure why you would trust a privacy policy more than you would trust encryption, with a court order Telegram would provide your chats to law enforcement, while Whatsapp would not be able to. [0]: https://engineering.fb.com/2023/04/13/security/w…

> to make their e2ee auditable This is not the algorithm being audited, it's the key. Telegram's complete algorithm is auditable, including the open source client apps. Server code is always unverifiable, so let's not bring that up. Secondly, WhatsApp channels and large groups (copied from Telegram) are not encrypted in any way (cmiw), as opposed to Telegram's MTProto 2.0 Cloud encryption. The app is completely close…

WhatsApp Communities are indeed E2E encrypted. About channels, why would you want a channel to be encrypted when you are just a follower and cannot communicate back? In fact WhatsApp's guidelines explicitly state the following:

> Channel updates should be used to share information with followers and viewers, not as a way for admins to communicate back and forth.

https://faq.whatsapp.com/671443411431514/

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#677

Post by maxdo »

Feels like PR from his side.

He will be released as part of some trade. Yesterday Moscow arrested someone from the West with 1 kg of heroin will label "for distribution" . That's what drag dillers do lol

Telegram is a darknet, masked as a messenger , no matter what you think about it. The great proper way to solve such problem should be AI, that monitors illegal activity and acts as a legal mediator, if it found something bad, red flag, and in this case, release the conversation to authorities.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#678

Post by averageRoyalty »

sweeter wrote: post #570
kombine wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there is no logical link between the two events. Russian govt can protest that for propaganda reasons: to make a point that Western governments are restricting freedom of speech.

They're hitting that Uno Reverse card. Tbf, the US does a LOT of the stuff that we openly criticize Russia and China for. Which, I would hope that people have enough insight to recognize that this is a bad thing across the board. The only people who get hurt and face consequences from this kind of a thing are the citizens.

This is a key perspective people fail to take into account. We've been conditioned by movies, books etc to think everyone fits into these black and white "good and bad" categories.

Most western countries do horrific things we do not find acceptable, but when we do find out we hand wave it away because they're the "good guys".

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#679

Post by averageRoyalty »

alephnerd wrote: post #385
kyleee wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it illegal to offer legal services to undesirables and/or criminals?

Yes. If you are directly aiding and abetting without any plausible attempt to minimize bad actors from using your services then absolutely. For example, CP absolutely exists on platforms like FB or IG, but Meta will absolutely try to moderate it away to the best of their ability and cooperate with law enforcement when it is brought to their attention. And like I have mentioned a couple times before, Telegram was only…

> For example, CP absolutely exists on platforms like FB or IG, but Meta will absolutely try to moderate it away to the best of their ability

Is this true? After decades now of a cat and mouse game, it could be argued that they are simply incapable. As such, the "best of their ability" would be using methods that don't suit their commercials - e.g verifying all users manually, requiring government ID, reviewing all posts and comments before they're posted, or shutting down completely.

I understand these methods are suicidal in capitalism, but they're much closer to the "best of their ability". Why do we accept some of the largest companies in the world shrugging their shoulders and saying "well we're trying in ways that don't impact our bottom line"?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#680

Post by [deleted] »

maxdo wrote: post #677

Feels like PR from his side. He will be released as part of some trade. Yesterday Moscow arrested someone from the West with 1 kg of heroin will label "for distribution" . That's what drag dillers do lol Telegram is a darknet, masked as a messenger , no matter what you think about it. The great proper way to solve such problem should be AI, that monitors illegal activity and acts as a legal mediator, if it found some…

[deleted]
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