Telegram offers end-to-end encryption in the same way that McDonalds offers salads.
In opposition to something French?
Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
171–180 of 609 posts
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#172It’s not encrypted by default, and even if it were encrypted, you should never trust any connected device with anything important. That being said, Telegram is hands down the best communication platform right now. It is feature-rich, with features implemented years ago that are only now being added to other platforms. It has normal chatting/video calls, groups, channels, and unlimited storage in theory, all for free.…
What's in Telegram that you don't see in Signal? Honest question, I only use Signal rather than Telegram.
User base, large groups (I think the max is 200k members), channels, bots to automate work, animated stickers, video messages (not the calls one), and video/voice calls within the group (not sure if Signal has that), file storage and file sharing, multiple devices without worrying about losing messages -and you might mention the security part and that’s ok, I want the accessibility, if I want security I will look somewhere else- among other features. Those are on top of my head.
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#173The worst thing is that almost every non-techie who uses Telegram thinks Telegram in general is e2ee.
Not a single person I know who uses Telegram cares about or thinks of it as e2ee. Whether "techie" or "non-techie" (whatever the definition of that is). People use it because it has a nice interface, was one of the first to have good "sticker" message support (yes, a lot of people care about that kind of stuff), and of course because of the good old network effect. It's only on HN I ever see people set up Telegram as…
Telegram is mostly used by people in the US for drug deals and chatting with people in Eastern Europe, so it's very common to believe it's a secure messenger.
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
But that's literally the entire point of this article. That is, in this day and age, when people talk about "secure messaging apps" they are usually implying end-to-end encryption, which Telegram most certainly is not for the vast majority of usages.
Also, iMessage is very secure...but then all your stuff is backed up on iCloud servers unless you specifically disable it. That includes all your iCloud encryption keys and plaintext messages. Worse, iPhones immediately start backing up to iCloud when set up for a new user - the only way to keep your network passwords and all manner of other stuff from hitting iCloud servers is to set the phone up with no network con…
That is the correct default. Every day users are far more likely to accidentally lose their data than to run into government snooping.
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#175In my opinion, Telegram is more of a social network than a messenger. There are many useful channels and in many countries, it plays an important role in sharing information. If we look at it from this point of view, e2ee does not seem very important.
We should also not forget that, in the time when all social media (Reddit, X, Instagram etc.) close their APIs, Telegram is one of the only networks that still has a free API.
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#176Try the mud puddle test: log into your account on a new device using the password recovery flow. Can you see your old messages? If the answer is yes then law enforcement can too. https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2012/08/05/how-se...
Well of course, but this is a feature of Telegram. It's the only messaging app where messages are stored on the cloud. This of course has security implications, but also allows you to have a big number of chats without wasting your device memory like WhatsApp does, or having to delete old conversations, and allows you to access your chats from any device. By the way you can also set a password to log in from another…
This is such a misrepresentation. Telegram could at-will feed the cloud-2FA password to password hashing function like Argon2 to derive a client-side encryption key. Everything could be backed up to the cloud in encrypted state only you can access. Do they do that? No.
So it's not as much as trade-off, as it is half-assed security design.
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would love to see a side-by-side comparison of iMessage, Signal, WhatsApp and Telegram on this.
You already know how Signal is going to come out here, because this is something people complain incessantly about (the inconvenience of not getting transcripts when enrolling new devices).
I agree with the principle here wholeheartedly. One addendum though is I think this isn't quite the same as the mud puddle test. The idea behind the mud puddle test is if you've forgotten everything, but then manage to recover your data, then the principle must be that someone other than you has to have had access. With Signal, they intentionally refuse to sync data as an extra security step even if you have the keys, the software just refuses to do the syncing step. I'm glad they do personally and I'm not contradicting your point, just adding some notes. Just thought it worth noting.
Edit: Actually, yeah that proves your point.
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's in Telegram that you don't see in Signal? Honest question, I only use Signal rather than Telegram.
Signal has probably the worst UX of any messaging app. It also used to require sharing phone numbers to add contacts, which imo is already a privacy violation. Telegram is fast, responsive, gets frequent updates, has great group chat, tons of animated emojis, works flawlessly on all desktop and mobile platforms, has great support for media, bots, and a great API, allows edits and deleting messages for all users, and…
> allows edits and deleting messages for all users
And it has those little features like masked text and what not, features wise, telegram is just the best. I didn’t use Signal for a long time, you can’t edit the messages there!?
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#179Thanks for the blog post, now I finally have a good resource I can point people to next time they claim Telegramm is secure. > I am not specifically calling out Telegram for this, since the same problem [with metadata] exists with virtually every other social media network and private messenger. Notably, Signal offers a feature called Sealed Sender[0]. While it doesn't solve the metadata problem entirely, it does at…
Sealed sender doesn't really solve the metadata problem at all: * https://www.ndss-symposium.org/wp-content/uploads/ndss2021_1... Generally you need something like TOR to hide who is talking to who.
Interesting, I feared Sealed Sender might be susceptible to statistical analysis (hence my phrasing "reduce it a bit") but it's worse than I expected ("Signal could link sealed sender users in as few as 5 message"). Thanks for the link!
As for TOR, that wouldn't really help much, would it, given that the described attack is at the application level of Signal. Or are you talking about not using Signal altogether?
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, iMessage is very secure...but then all your stuff is backed up on iCloud servers unless you specifically disable it. That includes all your iCloud encryption keys and plaintext messages. Worse, iPhones immediately start backing up to iCloud when set up for a new user - the only way to keep your network passwords and all manner of other stuff from hitting iCloud servers is to set the phone up with no network con…
iCLoud can be disabled by MDM profile installed by Apple Configurator at setup.
Can I enroll my personal iPhone in MDM myself? And if I can have MDM with just my personal phone, do I need to buy some kind of subscription for it from Apple? Or pay some third-party?
I thought MDM was only for enterprise businesses and schools and universities, but I may very well be mistaken about that.