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Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

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Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#21
post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved?

The "harm" principle which is very popular these days to see if things are bad or good or punishable or not, I think it has a lot of problems. There are a lot of things that don't map onto this principle well. Social cohesion is a huge one. Something may not directly harm someone, but it can harm the fabric of society and many other things.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#23
post #6
post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

Doesn't matter if an actual child was abused or not. Under the PROTECT Act, obscene child porn is illegal to produce or distribute whether actual children were involved or not. The Supreme Court has ruled that material deemed obscene is NOT subject to First Amendment protection.

Incorrect . Obscene material can be restricted in terms of its distribution and advertising. It is not an excuse to make it illegal to possess or distribute privately. This is why things like porn and vibrators are illegal to sell in stores in Texas, but you can still order it online.

The reason why child porn is illegal completely - not just restricted in its advertising and distribution - is because it's production necessarily involve abuse of actual children.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_po...

> In response to Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, Congress passed the PROTECT Act of 2003 (also dubbed the Amber Alert Law) which was signed into law on April 30, 2003, by President George W. Bush.[126] The PROTECT Act adjusted its language to meet the parameters of the Miller, Ferber, and Ashcroft decisions. The Act was careful to separate cases of virtual pornography depicting minors into two different categories of law: child pornography law and obscenity law. In regards to child pornography law, the Act modified the previous wording of "appears to be a minor" with "indistinguishable from that of a minor" phrasing. This definition does not apply to depictions that are drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting minors or adults.

Now, there is an argument that if the fictional content is indistinguishable from real abuse, it may be illegal. But that could probably be circumvented by providing the inputs and seed to generate the image, rather than the image itself.

I'm not super motivated to defend AI generated child porn, but the notion of banning it introduces ambiguity. Actual child abuse material can be identified because the people involved were born on a specific date and so whether or not it's illegal has a clear threshold. But AI generated content is not so easy to distinguish. The fictional characters don't have a birth date, so whether or not it's illegal becomes a lot more subjective.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#24
post #19
post #7

So now is not downloading pics, but downloading AI models that can generate it. Are there people fine tuning models with these illegal images? Or is it just a jail broken model. In the former case the fine tuner needs to be traced, the latter case is new law territory

No new law is necessary. The PROTECT Act makes all sexually explicit imagery of a minor that does not have artistic or literary merit illegal to produce, distribute, or possess. It closes the "no actual children were involved, it's just fiction/cartoons" loophole.

That stretches the definition of "loophole." It's like calling "truth" the libel loophole.

The harm is supposed to be to children.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#25
post #14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have not followed the topic since it's not my cup of beer, but what is the legal stance on hentai with characters that are depicted as under 18 (or whatever age of concent is relevant) edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_po...

Most likely illegal under the PROTECT Act. It would have to be ruled obscene under the Miller Test (which most material considered hentai probably would).

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Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#26
post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

From the first paragraph:

> A Florida man is facing 20 counts of obscenity for allegedly creating and distributing AI-generated child pornography

I'd bet distribution of CSAM the crime what got him prosecuted, not modifying OSS.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#27
post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? The "harm" principle which is very popular these days to see if things are bad or good or punishable or not, I think it has a lot of problems. There are a lot of things that don't map onto this principle well. Social cohesion is a huge one. Something may not directly harm someone, but it can harm the fabric of society and many other things.

It also doesn't apply to most laws. The law doesn't always require a victim or harm. Just look at speeding tickets or DUIs. You don't have to harm someone to wind up in jail

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#28
post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? The "harm" principle which is very popular these days to see if things are bad or good or punishable or not, I think it has a lot of problems. There are a lot of things that don't map onto this principle well. Social cohesion is a huge one. Something may not directly harm someone, but it can harm the fabric of society and many other things.

Not saying I agree with legally permitting this kind of thing, but just addressing your comment:

If the government can throw you in prison for something, it better be for a good reason. If it's simply doing something "that doesn't harm anyone but is perceived as not conducive to social cohesion", that doesn't seem like a good reason. Many conservatives would say gay marriage, polyamory, tattoos, porn, foul language, and blasphemy are not socially cohesive. Insulting people or using slurs is not socially cohesive. Some countries imprison people for many of these things, but I'm glad the US doesn't.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#29
post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

Distribution of fictitious CSAM does create harm, despite not directly involving real children.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? The "harm" principle which is very popular these days to see if things are bad or good or punishable or not, I think it has a lot of problems. There are a lot of things that don't map onto this principle well. Social cohesion is a huge one. Something may not directly harm someone, but it can harm the fabric of society and many other things.

It also doesn't apply to most laws. The law doesn't always require a victim or harm. Just look at speeding tickets or DUIs. You don't have to harm someone to wind up in jail

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