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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

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Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#421

Post by pshirshov »

itvision wrote: post #404
pshirshov wrote: post #245

My opinion would be extremely unpopular, but: 1) The guy was marketing an open-text messenger as an e2ee messenger 2) Because of (1) he was able to moderate it and help law enforcement with locating criminals but he was not cooperating 3) He was extremely cooperative with Russian "law enforcement", as multiple deanonymised activists with leaked chats, contact lists and location history found out So, a hypocrite got w…

> 1) The guy was marketing an open-text messenger as an e2ee messenger Citations needed.

I would delegate the answer to another Russian company: https://www.kaspersky.ru/blog/telegram-why-nobody-uses-secre...

Also it's not really THAT hard to find "the proofs".

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#422

Post by CodeWriter23 »

mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

Let’s just say I encrypt illegal.content prior to uploading it to Platform A. And share the public key separately via Platform B. Maybe even refer Platform A users to a private forum on Platform B to obtain the keys. Are both platforms now on the wrong side of the law?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#423

Post by StrLght »

whimsicalism wrote: post #345
StrLght wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like other platforms without E2EE are managing to do that without any issues whatsoever (e.g. Discord)

discord has hundreds of content moderators, telegram is made by a team of 30 people i don’t think messaging startups should be required to employ hundreds of people to read messages

Isn't this a consequence of Telegram's actions?

It was their decision to become something bigger than a simple messaging app by adding channels and group chats with tons of participants. It was also their decision to understaff content moderation team.

Sometimes the consequence is a legal action, like the one we're seeing right now. All this could have been easily avoided if they had E2EE or enough people to review reported content and remove it when necessary.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#424

Post by alephnerd »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #408
alephnerd wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. If you are directly aiding and abetting without any plausible attempt to minimize bad actors from using your services then absolutely. For example, CP absolutely exists on platforms like FB or IG, but Meta will absolutely try to moderate it away to the best of their ability and cooperate with law enforcement when it is brought to their attention. And like I have mentioned a couple times before, Telegram was only…

> If you are directly aiding and abetting without any plausible attempt to minimize bad actors from using your service isn't this the definition of "criminal lawyer"?

If you are a criminal lawyer who is providing defense, that is acceptable because everyone is entitled to to a fair trial and defense.

If you are a criminal lawyer who is directly abetting in criminal behavior (eg. a Saul Goodman type) you absolutely will lose your Bar License and open yourself up to criminal penalties.

If you are a criminal lawyer who is in a situation where your client wants you to abet their criminal behavior, then you are expected to drop the client and potentially notify law enforcement.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#425

Post by layer8 »

13415 wrote: post #357
layer8 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By knowingly facilitating criminal activities, you become complicit.

The Silk Road was designed and marketed explicitly towards criminals to facilitate crime and AFAIK had practically no other uses. So, it's not a reasonable comparison.

I think you replied to the wrong comment.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#426

Post by vilunov »

Timber-6539 wrote: post #415
konart wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the server? Telegram is not strictly e2e.

An "open source server"... are you trolling?

> Show me an example of an "open source server".

XMPP and Matrix services run open source software such as ejabberd

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#427

Post by d0mine »

adamcharnock wrote: post #160

A anecdote about Pavel in a HN comment from few weeks ago (not that I have a stance anything in this situation): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41149755

To be fair, it seems typical ceo behavior (gates, jobs, bezos) -- you don't become a billionaire by being nice.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#428

Post by philistine »

loceng wrote: post #137
jeroenhd wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dotcom got extradited (which was declared legal much later). Durov landed in a country that had an arrest warrant out for him. I hope his situation isn't similar to Dotcom's, as Dotcom was shown to be complicit in the crimes he was being persecuted for. Convicting the megaupload people would've been a LOT harder if they hadn't been uploading and curating illegal content on their platform themselves. As a service prov…

From my understanding the arrest warrant only was created while he was en route; sneaky sneaky..

Fuck around and find out. If he legitimately ignored legal French documents forcing him to share information, as the French have declared, he's got got.

You don't step foot on a country with an extradition treaty, even less so the country itself, where you're flouting their warrants for your company's data.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#429

Post by MacsHeadroom »

layer8 wrote: post #210
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? That’s a really disappointing example of censorship. The state has no business judging the truth.

How do you propose jurisdiction to work without judging the truth?

It is government's role to protect speech, not to censor.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#430

Post by whimsicalism »

namdnay wrote: post #414
whimsicalism wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i should be allowed to watch whatever state propaganda i want, i'm a big boy 15 years ago in the US this would have been uncontroversial

15 years ago watching too much Taliban propaganda would have put you in Guantanamo pretty fast

you earnestly think that is true of an american citizen in 2009?
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