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The Power of Language

blog.alexmaccaw.com

11–20 of 51 posts

Re: The Power of Language

#11
post #8

Language isn't an invention, it's co-evolved with Homo Sapiens. I highly recommend The Symbolic Species for the current state of the art in language origin theories. http://www.amazon.com/The-Symbolic-Species-Co-Evolution-Lang...

Are you kidding? The book is 15 years old. I did enjoy it very much in 1997, though.

Re: The Power of Language

#12
We think into language. We do not think in language.

The former is a more consistent notion than the latter. More consistent with the evidence, etc. cited. Thinking 'in' language implies passivity and representation, thinking into language implies evolutionarily novel linguistic production, autonomy of mind, etc.

Please review The Philosophical Foundations of Neuroscience.

Re: The Power of Language

#13
post #8

Language isn't an invention, it's co-evolved with Homo Sapiens. I highly recommend The Symbolic Species for the current state of the art in language origin theories. http://www.amazon.com/The-Symbolic-Species-Co-Evolution-Lang...

Are you kidding? The book is 15 years old. I did enjoy it very much in 1997, though.

I'd love to hear about recent theories that are substantively different. I'm not aware of any.

Re: The Power of Language

#14
Another observation is that the grammatical structure of language differs between humans and other primates. At some point in human evolution there must have been a transition to a recursively enumerable grammar, which facilitates complex culture and metasystems similar to Wolfram's class 4 automata.

Re: The Power of Language

#15

The relationship between language and thought is unclear. To be polarising, psychologists believe that language influences thought/culture and linguists believe that thought/culture influences language. There are evidence to support both conclusions, but most of the debate in popular media focuses on examples that are severely misinterpreted. For example, if Language A does not distinguish green and blue, it does not…

If you casually asked a native Chinese speaker "are leaves and the sky the same color?" would they answer differently than if you asked a native English speaker? If so (i.e. if Chinese speakers tend to say Yes while English speakers tend to say No), then I would argue that there's something more going on than simple hue labels, since the labels themselves aren't being asked for or provided.

Re: The Power of Language

#16

The relationship between language and thought is unclear. To be polarising, psychologists believe that language influences thought/culture and linguists believe that thought/culture influences language. There are evidence to support both conclusions, but most of the debate in popular media focuses on examples that are severely misinterpreted. For example, if Language A does not distinguish green and blue, it does not…

Exactly. Just as I used to hear people say "Eskimos" have (some double digit number) of words to describe different "snow". Which makes sense if you realize they live in snow. On the other hand, for many purposes, English, as well as other languages, have ways to describe that snow --they just don't have one word nouns fot that. It's not as though we'd be dumfounded finding a way to describe this snow. Now, since it's not everyday we see snow, yeah, we might not at first glance have it apparent that there is a difference between fresh snow and day-old snow (bit of melting, evaporation) snow drift, snowpack, falling snow, fallen snow, etc.

With regard to grammatical gender, w/re German, I was told that it was futile to try to derive grammatical gender from the attributes of objects --that it was pretty random, for the most part. Mark Twain once remarked "In German, a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has"

Re: The Power of Language

#17

The relationship between language and thought is unclear. To be polarising, psychologists believe that language influences thought/culture and linguists believe that thought/culture influences language. There are evidence to support both conclusions, but most of the debate in popular media focuses on examples that are severely misinterpreted. For example, if Language A does not distinguish green and blue, it does not…

That's quite an interesting "debate". Liberman concedes the entire thing in his first sentence!

Re: The Power of Language

#18
It's funny that he concludes the post in celebration. I personally find it a scary suggestion that our core perception and being is decided by idiosyncrasies of language and culture.

Re: The Power of Language

#19
post #15

The relationship between language and thought is unclear. To be polarising, psychologists believe that language influences thought/culture and linguists believe that thought/culture influences language. There are evidence to support both conclusions, but most of the debate in popular media focuses on examples that are severely misinterpreted. For example, if Language A does not distinguish green and blue, it does not…

If you casually asked a native Chinese speaker "are leaves and the sky the same color?" would they answer differently than if you asked a native English speaker? If so (i.e. if Chinese speakers tend to say Yes while English speakers tend to say No), then I would argue that there's something more going on than simple hue labels, since the labels themselves aren't being asked for or provided.

I don't think so. I think it would be similar to asking someone if the sky was the same color as the blue angel planes flying around the same sky (on a regularly blue-skies day).

Re: The Power of Language

#20
post #10
post #2

Good article :), here's my dissent... I, like most europeans (or for that matter most of the non anglo-saxon world), speak multiple languages on a daily basis. I think its true that a language forces you to concentrate on certain things i.e. object gender, its relative distance, or shape when counting objects, but it doesn't make you "think" differently in any fundamental way. We all still perceive three chairs, or d…

But doesn't your programming language change how you think about problems? Does a Lisp expert think the same way as a Java expert? Our spoken language is not something that was designed but is an artefact of thousands of years of social interaction. Of course most of the time it doesn't matter, but sometimes it does.

This is sometimes theme in science fiction as well. While for example Snow Crash was a bit cheesy in this regard (reprogramming human brains with special words and similar stuff), the language used plays interesting role in The Culture series as well.

EDIT: I would also suggest that Lisp and Java are more different than any two human languages in history. And even then, they are both Turing complete.

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