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We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

takes.jamesomalley.co.uk

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Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#291

Post by scotty79 »

Propelloni wrote: post #133
gabesullice wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cautionary example of how data meets reality… My address in France is listed in the BAN… but only to the granularity of my street number (e.g., 123 Main St.). Unfortunately, that number corresponds to at least 7 different structures, 5 of which are apartment buildings. Of those 5 buildings, each has multiple stairwells with their own door and no line of communication between them—they might as well be separate buil…

This sounds like bad design by the property developer and a sloppy building authority. The first is corroborated by the lack of unit numbers. Who does such a thing? The BAN actually only tracks down to the plot level, so I assume all your structures are on the same plot. From there on it is the building authorities job to check building plans and to enter the substructures into the cadastre, where they are usually le…

> The first is corroborated by the lack of unit numbers. Who does such a thing?

The entire country of Germany for example. It's super annoying.

Although they have the decency to assign distinct numbers to stairwells and when you register where you live for administrative and postal purposes you give description at which floor and on which side the door is located.

The funny thing is that in Germany you have to pay TV license which is paid "per apartment". But since apartment doesn't have its own number, just street name, building number and freeform description then the authority responsible for collecting tv license fees doesn't know it a fee for this apartment is already being paid. So when you move in anywhere they always send you a letter so that you either start paying or provide TV license I'd number of a person living in this apartment who's already paying.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#292

Post by jamwil »

rootusrootus wrote: post #248
inphus0rian wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

apartments in france often (if not always) do not have unit numbers. i always thought it is to preserve anonymity.

Would not the opposite be true? If you have to write your name out just so the mail can find you, you are less anonymous than if you just have a number that gets mail directly to your mailbox.

You divulge your name yes but the upside is not having it correlated with a place. The name is written on the mailbox outside but is not mapped to a unit number on the envelope/parcel nor on the building.

The only way anyone can map your unit to your name is by physically watching you collect the mail then return to your unit.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#293

Post by scott_w »

spacebanana7 wrote: post #287
scott_w wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can try to protect it but anything inside the UK is subject to UK law and no other law. As I said, there may be practical concerns (read, consequences) for a course of action but this is separate to the domain of law. Inside the UK, if a law explicitly counteracts, say, an international treaty, the British courts MUST find in favour of British law.

> anything inside the UK is subject to UK law and no other law This is true in theory but not in practice. If you’ve been sanctioned by the US then you won’t by able to get a bank account in the UK. Even if you’ve not violated any UK law. The Americans can give a British bank an ultimatum between dealing in US dollars and dealing with a particular individual. Every bank will always choose the former. Similarly anythi…

The examples you gave are nothing to do with Parliament creating a law, they’re all based on individual actions.

And in any case, my disclaimer already covered the bases you’re discussing:

> If it has knock-on impacts in other areas, it's hard to say, but that's separate to the law.

I’d hoped it was clear that I was referring to UK law but perhaps not.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#294

Post by extraduder_ire »

pjc50 wrote: post #38
GJim wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GPS coordinates *coordinates There are four GNSS constellations, of which GPS is only one...... a statement that negates the fact ones position on Earth may be calculated using a variety of other means. EDIT: In response to replies below; One isn't questioning the coordinate system (!), rather the assumption as to how they have been calculated.

Like "Hoover", "GPS" is now a generic term for positioning systems.

For Positioning Systems that are Global, anyway.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#295

Post by extraduder_ire »

wkat4242 wrote: post #164
NeoTar wrote: post #48

Some context, for people not located in the UK - A full British postcode typically aims to cover around 15 buildings (sometime a single building, sometimes a street of 50 houses). This is in contrast to many other postal code systems which cover relatively broad areas). Or to put it another way - UK - 2,643,732 codes, 1 code per 25 people, USA - 41,700 codes, 1 code per 8000 people, Germany - 8,200 codes, 1 code per…

And in Ireland 1 postcode (eircode) for 1 address. Very handy. Having said that, they took their time, postcodes were only introduced a few years ago!

Around early 2015. Before then it was annoying to fill out online forms with addresses, because you had to guess the right way to say no-postcode. I still get letters to this day with "None." written where the postcode goes.

IIRC, we were going to implement UK style postcodes much earlier but the OCR machines that an post had were good enough to read the whole address reliably by the time they got around to considering it. So they deemed it unnecessary.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#296

Post by extraduder_ire »

ascorbic wrote: post #146
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't it be taken for free? The system and data was created by a publicly owned body, surely Crown copyright.

It was (stupidly) included in the assets when Royal Mail was privatised, so it's no longer publicly owned.

Can they at least release the last version from before it was privatised? Would make a decent starting point.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#297

Post by sahmeepee »

rootusrootus wrote: post #253
simonbarker87 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence why a house number and postcode constitutes a complete address in the UK, we’ve sort of already got What Three Words with “a number and 5-7 characters” - not quite as catchy though

I noticed that W3W showed up in a number of places, typically on advertisements, at least around London. Is it used universally across the UK? I don't know of anyone using it in the US aside from a few enthusiasts. I had forgotten about it until a few weeks ago when we were visiting London.

It's far from universal and much less used than postcodes for general purpose location, the company just pushed very hard with UK advertising and did a deal with the ambulance service because "everyone trusts the NHS"

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#298

Post by Muromec »

DonHopkins wrote: post #162
Muromec wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This creates a very special Dutch thing —- my neighborhood had the roads on the map before the map itself was updated to show landmass instead of the body of water.

I wonder if all the houses on disconnected long islands without roads in Vinkeveense Plassen have postal codes? It's hard to get a pizza delivered there. https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2307079,4.9365182,1869m/data...

That area looks so weird on a map and so cool in person. I never kinda understood what is going on there except the whole having a lake and being the Netherlands.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#299

Post by pbhjpbhj »

bluGill wrote: post #178
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't it be taken for free? The system and data was created by a publicly owned body, surely Crown copyright.

I have no idea what UK law is. In the US the data itself is public domain, but the compilation is of data is copyright. Maps commonly would intentionally have errors in to detect copying - the error is creative work and so a copyright violation to copy so if someone copies your map you can sue them for copyright violation for not just the errors but also that compilation. If you take someone else's map and then use t…

We have a database right in the UK, originally derived from EU legislation. That would apply to postcodes AFAICT, but government can legislate in favour of the demos and against a private corporation.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#300

Post by pbhjpbhj »

bluGill wrote: post #179
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't it be taken for free? The system and data was created by a publicly owned body, surely Crown copyright.

> Why can't it be taken for free? It can be, but that has unknown long term effects. If you do this it shows everyone your government cannot be trusted and so other good ideas will not happen because people cannot trust the government. We probably do not agree on what is a good idea so I'm going to leave this vague - whatever your political side there is a good idea that is suddenly unworkable because the government…

Yes, every other Royal Mail that benefited from a nationally compiled database would also be at risk of having the database they didn't pay to create opened up... meaning they could continue to use it in exactly the same way.

How devastating. /s

If you benefit by paying politicians so you can 'steal' national assets then why shouldn't we go after some of those assets. We're not even talking about depriving then if the asset, only making a copy of it.

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