Japan on edge of EUV lithography chip-making revolution
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Re: Japan on edge of EUV lithography chip-making revolution
#2Will this attempt work out commercially? Maybe, maybe not. But more interesting here is the strategic situation beyond the currently understood tech.
The US has made it clear that it sees semiconductors as a vector to attack power centres in Asia. Today it is China. Democracies are notoriously fickle, tomorrow it could be India, Japan, Korea or anyone really. There is a strategic need here to break the remaining European monopolies on equipment supply. For China the need is urgent but for all the Asian powers the need is real.
Given the manufacturing powerhouse that the collective Asia represents, I expect they'll figure all these details out and become technologically independent at least on paper. They've had more than a century of experience in dealing with the west, the risks of the status quo are too obvious once the US is overtly exploiting it.
Re: Japan on edge of EUV lithography chip-making revolution
#3A few points in terms of context.
1. The original paper in Japanese claim to use only 4 mirrors to achieve the same results. Although this story only mentions >the EUV equipment’s optical system is greatly simplified
1. Japan isn't new to lithography. Both Canon and Nikon are in the market as well and eventually gave on EUV research and focuses on DUV.
2. Power consumption is reduced by a factor of ten is extremely important as modern EUV, and future High-NA EUV are insanely power hungry, with 30%+ of the raw cost of chip manufacturing goes to energy usage alone. And this isn't just TSMC but also NAND and DRAM maker as well.
3. ASML has something similar in the work as well. Although not to any extreme as factor of 10. But then they also dont need these sort of claim to get funding as the one here does.
Re: Japan on edge of EUV lithography chip-making revolution
#4A few points in terms of context. 1. The original paper in Japanese claim to use only 4 mirrors to achieve the same results. Although this story only mentions >the EUV equipment’s optical system is greatly simplified 1. Japan isn't new to lithography. Both Canon and Nikon are in the market as well and eventually gave on EUV research and focuses on DUV. 2. Power consumption is reduced by a factor of ten is extremely i…
with 30%+ of the raw cost of chip manufacturing goes to energy usage alone
Is the marginal cost of production at all relevant compared to the upfront capital outlay?
Re: Japan on edge of EUV lithography chip-making revolution
#5They mention validation in software which suggests a hardware implementation is a way off with a lot of practical issues that might crop up on the way. So best of luck to them but i wouldn’t expect to see hit the market for quite a while - saying they are “on the edge of euv chip making” is very optimistic.
Re: Japan on edge of EUV lithography chip-making revolution
#6A few points in terms of context. 1. The original paper in Japanese claim to use only 4 mirrors to achieve the same results. Although this story only mentions >the EUV equipment’s optical system is greatly simplified 1. Japan isn't new to lithography. Both Canon and Nikon are in the market as well and eventually gave on EUV research and focuses on DUV. 2. Power consumption is reduced by a factor of ten is extremely i…
Later on the article says
> To eliminate this problem, Professor Shintake aligned two axis-symmetric mirrors in a straight line and used a total of only four mirrors instead of ten.
Re: Japan on edge of EUV lithography chip-making revolution
#7Canon and Nikon are also working on alternatives such as nanoimprint lithography [1]. Chinese universities and companies are working on particle accelerator based EUV sources [2]. Question is, will they be able to actually commercialize it before ASML manages to get improved versions of their current litho machines out the door? Commercialization of a technology like this can easily take 5-10 years, and ASML aren't twiddling their thumbs. Once the incumbent has a technology that is, say, 80-90% as good as the challenger, the big players will always choose them to minimize risks.
[1] https://semiengineering.com/nanoimprint-finds-its-footing-in...
[2] https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/china-to-bui...
Re: Japan on edge of EUV lithography chip-making revolution
#8A few points in terms of context. 1. The original paper in Japanese claim to use only 4 mirrors to achieve the same results. Although this story only mentions >the EUV equipment’s optical system is greatly simplified 1. Japan isn't new to lithography. Both Canon and Nikon are in the market as well and eventually gave on EUV research and focuses on DUV. 2. Power consumption is reduced by a factor of ten is extremely i…
with 30%+ of the raw cost of chip manufacturing goes to energy usage alone Is the marginal cost of production at all relevant compared to the upfront capital outlay?
One is OpeX and the other is CapeX. I would argue they are both important.
Re: Japan on edge of EUV lithography chip-making revolution
#9Will this attempt work out commercially? Maybe, maybe not. But more interesting here is the strategic situation beyond the currently understood tech. The US has made it clear that it sees semiconductors as a vector to attack power centres in Asia. Today it is China. Democracies are notoriously fickle, tomorrow it could be India, Japan, Korea or anyone really. There is a strategic need here to break the remaining Euro…
>The US has made it clear that it sees semiconductors as a vector to attack power centres in Asia. Today it is China. Democracies are notoriously fickle, tomorrow it could be India, Japan, Korea or anyone really.
Sorry but this sounds more like propaganda. China also sees supply chains "as a vector to attack power centres in Asia", that's applicable to anyone and anywhere. I'm not sure why Asia is a singled out here, sounds like one to trying to construe a racist motive when there is none.
The aformentioned India, Japan & Korea aren't worried about USA, their primary concerns are China and their neighbours. China's explicit objective to control the entire supply chain places them at a direct conflict of interest with those countries. They've already tried sanctioning Korea and Japan over petty issues like Fukushima water waste. Trying to appeal to some vague "Asian" solidarity as opposed to the existing OECD and actual shared norms sounds more like an attempt to divide allies rather than actually caring about those countries' interests.
Re: Japan on edge of EUV lithography chip-making revolution
#10Will this attempt work out commercially? Maybe, maybe not. But more interesting here is the strategic situation beyond the currently understood tech. The US has made it clear that it sees semiconductors as a vector to attack power centres in Asia. Today it is China. Democracies are notoriously fickle, tomorrow it could be India, Japan, Korea or anyone really. There is a strategic need here to break the remaining Euro…
> Democracies are notoriously fickle,
are they really though? At least in democracies things require oversight, debates and people are being held responsible.
It's exactly authoritarian regimes that can turn on a dime, if the supreme leader feels like it.