The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
Meanwhile the actions of BMW's founder (Herbert Quandt) have been largely forgotten.
One advantage is that he's dead and (thus) does not push his extremist views to the public.
BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
281–290 of 341 posts
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
Announcing BMW sold more EV’s in a single month (and they are using registrations which means actual sales) is interesting on its own. Sure it might just be random fluctuation at this point, but that just means they are neck and neck. IMO waiting for a full quarter may be more reasonable, but waiting for a full year and it’s old news.
> they are using registrations > which means actual sales No, you register a car in order to drive it on public roads in a given country. Some purchased cars are never registered (track use, private export etc.), or defer the registration (no reason to pay road tax if you're not driving it yet).
I didn’t say they were guaranteed to be 1:1, but every registration is an actual sale. The point is the number of sales is going to be grater than or equal to the number of registrations. So this isn’t some gameable metric like number of cars manufactured.
It’s possible there is some underlying bias here, but there’s no reason to assume it favors one company over the other enough to offset a 300 car difference in a single month especially as the total numbers just aren’t that high.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
Announcing BMW sold more EV’s in a single month (and they are using registrations which means actual sales) is interesting on its own. Sure it might just be random fluctuation at this point, but that just means they are neck and neck. IMO waiting for a full quarter may be more reasonable, but waiting for a full year and it’s old news.
> they are using registrations > which means actual sales No, you register a car in order to drive it on public roads in a given country. Some purchased cars are never registered (track use, private export etc.), or defer the registration (no reason to pay road tax if you're not driving it yet).
Right, the useful number instead of a comparison between cars sold to the European public and cars sold at the location as a matter of the logistical accident that it is the head quarters of the manufacturer.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they are using registrations > which means actual sales No, you register a car in order to drive it on public roads in a given country. Some purchased cars are never registered (track use, private export etc.), or defer the registration (no reason to pay road tax if you're not driving it yet).
I didn’t say they were guaranteed to be 1:1, but every registration is an actual sale. The point is the number of sales is going to be grater than or equal to the number of registrations. So this isn’t some gameable metric like number of cars manufactured. It’s possible there is some underlying bias here, but there’s no reason to assume it favors one company over the other enough to offset a 300 car difference in a s…
I'm not arguing the thrust of your point here, just noting that there isn't a 1:1 correspondence in case anyone's under that particular misconception.
I agree that registrations is probably the least bad metric, and I doubt BMW is gaming it in this case.
But saying it isn't gameable is a bridge too far. Manufacturers can trivially game it, it's just marginally more expensive to do so than to shift manufacturing numbers between quarters
E.g. BMW used to operate its own car rental, they could manufacture 1k vehicles each month in Q3, then sell them all to themselves in the last month of Q3, and register them at the same time.
They can also do this with any "self dealing" or corporate registrations by simply sitting on inventory and then lowering their prices, consumers would take care of the rest.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#285The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
Honestly, I dislike Musk since the 'submarine to save kids' story, but in Europe, at least outside big cities, Tesla owners aren't associated with Musk, so his politics or likeability aren't a factor on purchase choices. Musk himself wasn't really a factor for 95% of people before anyway, I think only americanized Europeans cared about him.
I just think Tesla can't find footing in the real low-end EV market because of BYD + Renault and associates (that market is small atm so it isn't an issue), never got in the high-end EV market so it has to compete with historic automaker in a market they have a lot of experience in.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
lived in germany for 8 years. the living heiress to a biscuit company fortune is still a nazi sympathiser today. nobody cares about the bmw founder who is dead. every company in germany had ties to the NSDAP, let’s focus on real nazis and antisemites and racists (elon) not dead ones.
Genuinely curious here and not trying to start a debate or sound rhetorical (I just don't keep up with the news that much) - what did Elon do that was racist?
> what did Elon do that was racist?
Explicitly allow and encourage racists on his social media platform?
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're overcomplicating it. As I said, "You don't have to turn this into some ideological battle." Someone asked the tiniest favor of you, simply refer to them how they want to be referred, and you said no. That goes beyond any ideology.
But isn't the whole thing asking someone to accept/endorse a different worldview? Is that really a tiny favor?
What? I hate surnames like 'Bill', 'Chuck' and 'Dick' and wouldn't want them for me, but if some Charles explicitly asked me to call him Chuck, I would call him Chuck, I'm not an asshole.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you be surprised if some people swear off buying BMWs for that reason?
This can be seen in data. Compare the car sales of Netherlands vs Denmark, two countries next to each other with similar living conditions, one of them occupied during the war, the other not. Guess which one of them don't have any German cars in the top sales list. Even today. Though I don't believe todays generation would hold a grudge, now it's likely more brand loyalty momentum that sticks.
Both Denmark and the Netherlands were under German occupation during WW2 (and only one month apart since April/May 1940)
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#289Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Companies do this all the time though. The trade off is, of course, that you get more support from customers the other side. I'm not quite sure that Trump's publuc would rush over to buy Teslas.
Tesla is not only selling car in US, but Musk behavior is turning off people globally (especially in Europe)
Yeah, so are people turned on globally, especially Europe.
This does not tell me anything. Maybe the republicans just have better arguments this time. Or the other way around. And then the losing side after elections may have to grind their teeth for a while. That is the way it is supposed to be.