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StackOverflow unwinding?

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Re: StackOverflow unwinding?

#161
post #61

None of the actual metrics of the site bear this out. I don't know what "myspacing" is, and "floundering" is pretty subjective, but in terms of actual measurable things, we have more questions asked, more questions answered, more people active on the site, more sites with more activity and most metrics are up about 100% in the last year. Some of the things that we track pretty closely (like number of users who ask or…

(blog author)

Howdy Joel,

its really quality not quantity and my subjective opinion of the appeal of the site(s).

Why did you shut down the old JoS forum?

Re: StackOverflow unwinding?

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about measuring number of upvotes on questions closed as not constructive /not about programming? I get the feeling that the technical questions are getting saturated, and that the community moved towards more soft issues (management, people skills etc). But soft issues get rejected. Perhaps start softie-programmer.com? At least do something other than closing them.

Well, there is: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/ -- for conceptual, no-source-code whiteboard programming questions http://workplace.stackexchange.com/ -- for questions about general professional workplace issues that aren't specific to programming And of course the rest of the sites at http://stackexchange.com/sites?view=list#traffic I'll be the first to tell you that our Q&A engine isn't necessarily effective…

My fundamental problem with that approach is that I don't want to read 5 sites. I want to read 1 site with the content I want on it.

The ghettoization of stack-exchange was a mistake. Give me an interface more like reddit - let me pick which areas I want to see questions from, all merged on to one page.

Re: StackOverflow unwinding?

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as measuring the sort of thing people are talking about: How has your Net Promoter Score changed? Do you do surveys with questions like, "How disappointed would you be if Stack Overflow went away tomorrow?" How does attrition of users with at least 3 upvoted answers look over time? I wouldn't expect the metrics you mention to capture the sort of user satisfaction issues, and I could see the above numbers not s…

perhaps, but the underlying post is remarkably light on actual metrics and details -- or even specific examples -- of what quality decline means.

Sure. It's his blog. Providing you with hard evidence to drive your product design process isn't his job. It's yours.

Re: StackOverflow unwinding?

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they don't want Stack Overflow to be a social network. But like Soylent Green, it's made out of people. In SO's case, inconveniently alive people. Humans are inherently social, and the amount of effort SO staff and moderators have to go to trying to stamp that out is a sign that SO really is a social network. I always think it's a bad sign when product designers think they know much better than their users what…

We do listen to the people! No other site gives so much power to regular users, up to and including moderator elections. The problem with listening to the people too much is that popularity becomes the most important metric, with predictable results: http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2012/01/the-trouble-with-popul... It's a balancing act. What people actually want, and what they think they want, are often two different h…

Listening to people is entirely different than electing moderators. Nobody here is complaining that you aren't serving insiders. But I do see a lot of grumbling from people who feel like they have been forced out.

In the link, you seem to be basically making a slippery slope argument. I am sure a lot of people agree that they don't want a sea of memes. But a lot of reasonable people feel you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. A modestly subjective question like "What are the relative merits of frameworks X, Y, and Z?" is not anything like a rage comic. Neither is a reasonable discussion on programming mistakes.

Your "opportunity cost" argument strikes me as entirely wrongheaded. You pretend there are only two things people can do in the world: subjective questions and the objective ones. Your worry that a topic expert is spending 10 minutes on something he enjoys rather than the thing you want him to do is paternalistic and controlling. Every real community bonds not just over the practical stuff, but the fun stuff. It's as if you're saying that Golden Gate Park should be removed because those people should be out picking up trash or working to pay taxes.

Re: StackOverflow unwinding?

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they don't want Stack Overflow to be a social network. But like Soylent Green, it's made out of people. In SO's case, inconveniently alive people. Humans are inherently social, and the amount of effort SO staff and moderators have to go to trying to stamp that out is a sign that SO really is a social network. I always think it's a bad sign when product designers think they know much better than their users what…

I'm one of the moderators on Stack Overflow. It's not my goal to stamp out any sign that SO is a social network, but I do want to prevent it from turning into Yahoo! Answers. Some level of moderation is necessary to maintain quality. Just because some users want to use Stack Overflow to ask off-topic questions doesn't mean we should let them.

Has anybody here complained about wanting off-topic questions? The linked article sure isn't.

Re: StackOverflow unwinding?

#166
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the opposite impression of Quora, really, and I think their voting design is brilliant. It's designed to maximize viewer utility and poster enjoyment at the expense of transparency. I get how it's infuriating to a certain type of user, but in doing so they've removed a lot of opportunities for negative interactions.

It sounds like you haven't experienced or seen Quora moderation. up/down voting is not moderation.

I accidentally hit the downvote button on your comment. Sorry about that. Someone else can feel free to counter it by upvoting the comment. I completely agree with what you are saying, by the way.

Re: StackOverflow unwinding?

#167
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the opposite impression of Quora, really, and I think their voting design is brilliant. It's designed to maximize viewer utility and poster enjoyment at the expense of transparency. I get how it's infuriating to a certain type of user, but in doing so they've removed a lot of opportunities for negative interactions.

It sounds like you haven't experienced or seen Quora moderation. up/down voting is not moderation.

[deleted]

Re: StackOverflow unwinding?

#168
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the opposite impression of Quora, really, and I think their voting design is brilliant. It's designed to maximize viewer utility and poster enjoyment at the expense of transparency. I get how it's infuriating to a certain type of user, but in doing so they've removed a lot of opportunities for negative interactions.

It sounds like you haven't experienced or seen Quora moderation. up/down voting is not moderation.

I was responding mainly to his comment on downvoting. At 200+ answers I've seen some moderation, but never been on the receiving end of it.

Having been a Wikipedia admin, I'd say Quora's doing a reasonable job. Moderation always feels arbitrary to people on the receiving end of it. And bureaucratic, too, if more than a few people do the moderating.

Re: StackOverflow unwinding?

#169
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there is: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/ -- for conceptual, no-source-code whiteboard programming questions http://workplace.stackexchange.com/ -- for questions about general professional workplace issues that aren't specific to programming And of course the rest of the sites at http://stackexchange.com/sites?view=list#traffic I'll be the first to tell you that our Q&A engine isn't necessarily effective…

My fundamental problem with that approach is that I don't want to read 5 sites. I want to read 1 site with the content I want on it. The ghettoization of stack-exchange was a mistake. Give me an interface more like reddit - let me pick which areas I want to see questions from, all merged on to one page.

Do you visit only one site on the Internet? I just wonder how far you're willing to go here, because the beauty of the internet, to me, is that there are zillions of sites on lots of different topics.

Re: StackOverflow unwinding?

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the moderators on Stack Overflow. It's not my goal to stamp out any sign that SO is a social network, but I do want to prevent it from turning into Yahoo! Answers. Some level of moderation is necessary to maintain quality. Just because some users want to use Stack Overflow to ask off-topic questions doesn't mean we should let them.

Has anybody here complained about wanting off-topic questions? The linked article sure isn't.

Your definition of "on-topic" is not the same as ours, therefore you do want off-topic questions.

Saying that our definition of the topic is wrong, does not mean you aren't asking for off-topic questions to be allowed. It's the same thing.

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