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BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

electriccarsreport.com

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Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#101

Post by GaggiX »

leesec wrote: post #75
ta8645 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The step-change is real, and a lot of people don't know that Tesla now has the best self-driving ability out of all the competition. But that's only true on 4th gen hardware, and unfortunately that represents a minority of the vehicles sold to date.

No they just released 12.5 to hw3 yesterday

I imagine they have distilled the 12.5 model to fit on the hw3. I will wait to see how it compares, with Tesla sometimes the results are honestly hilarious, "move fast and break things" but on a nearly 2 ton vehicle.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#103

Post by okdood64 »

DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #18
nicce wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would never buy Tesla personally if there is an alrernative with decades of experience, like BMW

Odd since BMWs are not known for reliabilty

This is an "old" notion. The powertrain in the last 10 years roughly are damn reliable.

(The electronics is arguable.)

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#104

Post by driverdan »

leesec wrote: post #40
arcbyte wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear people say this bit then I see those same people go and buy Teslas anyway. The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time.

>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time. Haha what. Price has dropped, quality increased, their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality. I don't really think Tesla is suffering but I think most of these narratives are in peoples heads and don't reflect reality.

> Price has dropped, quality increased

Has it though? Look at what a mess the Cybertruck is. Price is nearly double what was originally promised, quality is the lowest of any vehicle on the US market.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#105

Post by [deleted] »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #46
o11c wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced that's actually the dominant factor. The market share for EVs is still small enough that there's no real shortage of buyers. But it turns out that having a hundred years of domain experience building cars actually matters for something. Tesla cars have had a lot of avoidable failures on technical merits.

As far as ICE vehicles go, most mechanics will advise you to lease a BMW / Audi over buying one. After 60k miles, the maintenance costs and electrical gremlins are noticeably frequent. German EV's are probably better built - fewer electrical issues over a longer duration (I hope), and fewer moving parts to replace. I think this is a product differentiation / segmentation problem. People who wanted the current Tesla o…

[deleted]

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#106

Post by ghaff »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #46
o11c wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced that's actually the dominant factor. The market share for EVs is still small enough that there's no real shortage of buyers. But it turns out that having a hundred years of domain experience building cars actually matters for something. Tesla cars have had a lot of avoidable failures on technical merits.

As far as ICE vehicles go, most mechanics will advise you to lease a BMW / Audi over buying one. After 60k miles, the maintenance costs and electrical gremlins are noticeably frequent. German EV's are probably better built - fewer electrical issues over a longer duration (I hope), and fewer moving parts to replace. I think this is a product differentiation / segmentation problem. People who wanted the current Tesla o…

I've never owned one but the folk wisdom I've always heard is to have a good foreign car indie mechanic (or do a lot of your your own work I guess) or just plan on keeping a BMW/Audi/etc. to the end of the warranty period because dealer bills add up fast afterwards.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#107

Post by mrbungie »

epistasis wrote: post #25
two_handfuls wrote: post #22

The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.

Yes, Tesla's execution has been really terrible. There's some really good tech inside their cars, but the direction of which cars to make, when, and the investments in non-car tech, the over-promising of "Full Self Driving," etc. All huge detractors. There's also the CEO, who has a huge public profile, deciding to become extremely political, which smart CEOs usually avoid doing because it has little potential to help…

This is just an opinion but Musk, out of some level of autism and/or narcissism, must think those things just don't apply to him. I say that because sometimes the way he acts appears as he thinks he is so smart that he can circumvent typical social/economical/politica etiquette and even evade consequences.

Well, it has actually worked for him. The world makes a lot of exceptions about etiquette for him.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#108

Post by bdcravens »

linotype wrote: post #97
darkteflon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The i3 was such a great city car, well ahead of its time. Such a shame that they have apparently abandoned the EV design ethos embodied in that car (and that car alone) in favour of bloated luxo-barges. Tell me that your EV strategy is about brand greenwashing without telling me it’s about brand greenwashing. They seem to be really focused on chasing the Boomer demographic. I’m a happy former customer (twice over) bu…

Many (not all, obviously) boomers will never buy an EV because of identity politics in the midwestern United States. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is true elsewhere as well. Why they’re not pumping out $25k 250 mile range city cars for millenials and gen z is a mystery to me.

The same reason why the industry pushed away from the sedan and onto larger SUVs: profit margins. The Chevy Bolt was very close to what you described and was cancelled (brought back, but cancelling it was a momentum killer)

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#109

Post by makeitdouble »

root_axis wrote: post #47
two_handfuls wrote: post #22

The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.

I think you're right, but I'm not so sure it's actually impacting sales to a large degree. For most people a 50k car is a huge investment that won't hinge on whether or not you agree with the CEO's politics.

It's less how they personally feel about the CEO, and more on the image they'll be projecting with their car choice.

Basically social signaling.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#110

Post by DoesntMatter22 »

okdood64 wrote: post #103
DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd since BMWs are not known for reliabilty

This is an "old" notion. The powertrain in the last 10 years roughly are damn reliable. (The electronics is arguable.)

The entirety of reliability involves the whole car as you alluded to.
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