The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
This is true in some bubbles.
BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
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Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Tesla has massively benefited from subsidies to EVs, but is alienating the political party that has enabled all of that. Well, he's expecting some reciprocity from the next administration for all his help, and Trump has said openly that he will support EVs as a consequence of Elon's strong support.
> a consequence of Elon's strong support. What strong support? I recall that Elon publicly announced he was going to do a massive contribution to Trump's campaign fund, and then he announced like two days later that he wasn't going to do it.
The fun part is, as far as I understand it, the EV tax credit as part of the Inflation Reduction Act, did eventually include Teslas - even though Elon wasn't invited to the initial photo-op announcement party thrown by the White House due to the lack of unionization at Tesla factories.
On the flip side, support for the EV tax credit will probably be phased out if Trump wins according to recent articles I've read.
So then it seems it's not necessarily business logic but more about personal ego, etc.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#73The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
I think you're right, but I'm not so sure it's actually impacting sales to a large degree. For most people a 50k car is a huge investment that won't hinge on whether or not you agree with the CEO's politics.
There's wanting a Tesla and ignoring Musk, but there's also "should we consider a Tesla?" answered by "No, I don't trust him and anything he's associated with." We didn't look at Tesla when we bought our EV two years ago. There were other reasons than just Musk's personality, but it was a definitely a factor in ignoring the brand.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#74The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
I'm not convinced that's actually the dominant factor. The market share for EVs is still small enough that there's no real shortage of buyers. But it turns out that having a hundred years of domain experience building cars actually matters for something. Tesla cars have had a lot of avoidable failures on technical merits.
The case for me was that it was a strong influence, but not the only factor. I cancelled my Model 3 order due to some of Elon's actions and words, but I was already on the fence due to concerns about quality, etc. If it had been a slam dunk purchase, probably would have followed through (there are products I still purchase despite terrible politics of the owner/company)
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time. Haha what. Price has dropped, quality increased, their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality. I don't really think Tesla is suffering but I think most of these narratives are in peoples heads and don't reflect reality.
The step-change is real, and a lot of people don't know that Tesla now has the best self-driving ability out of all the competition. But that's only true on 4th gen hardware, and unfortunately that represents a minority of the vehicles sold to date.
No they just released 12.5 to hw3 yesterday
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#76The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
Yes that's what we're told, without evidence of any kind.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time. Haha what. Price has dropped, quality increased, their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality. I don't really think Tesla is suffering but I think most of these narratives are in peoples heads and don't reflect reality.
I'm not a "car person", so forgive me if this is wildly off, but it always seemed like Tesla was going for the market segment of "not super rich, but wealthy enough to afford luxury"... That is, it's been positioned as a 'luxury' brand. Dropping prices doesn't seem like it would be productive in that context. (Quality improvements, as you mentioned, certainly will, tho.) > their self driving tech recently had a step…
Better at self driving. A lot longer in miles per critical intervention
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#78The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
Maybe. Still going to have the best selling car in the world this year.
BYD is already way ahead.
https://evmarketsreports.com/byd-and-tesla-lead-the-global-e...
(except if you really were focusing on single model sales, but I'm not sure it's relevant)
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#79Maybe I’m in a bubble, but I didn’t even notice BMW had EVs
At least down here, there are few options that are not electric to some extent. Every brand has at least 2-3 fully electric cars, and the rest of the lineup is hybrid. Suzuki has Jimny that is not (yet?) hybrid, and maybe BMW and Mercedes have some non-electric (to any extent) options, due to the sheer size of their roster.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends on how you measure it. Teslas rank at #1 as the most faulty electric car in existence. Everything else than the battery or motors are poor quality if you compare to any other above average brand.
most faulty by raw numbers or by %? Also poor quality of what?
By % of failing mandatory inspections in EU.
> Also poor quality of what?
Basically anything other than battery or motors. Interior build. One big touchscreen to make anything as cheap as possible. Brakes. Suspension.
EVs literally have less wearing parts by design and somehow they managed to made these few ones worse than on average.