Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#641

Post by overgryphon » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 4:35 PM UTC

roc wrote: post #615

tylermenezes wrote: post #485

I don't understand the "OMG MICROSOFT MADE A TABLET IT IS CLEARLY COPYING THE IPAD" reaction Microsoft's getting here. They're absolutely ahead of the curve with the blending of mobile and desktop operating systems, something which I am extremely happy they are doing, and this is absolutely the logical design choices someone in that position would make. Yes, it's very similar to the iPad in many ways. But other than…

It's pretty obvious where that reaction is coming from. As recently as last year Microsoft was singing the praises of being able to kinda-sorta-use desktop software on a tablet and pushing the notion that things without desktop operating systems were 'consumption' devices, at best. So, yes, their sudden reversal on what people want in a tablet is worth noting and easily justifies the same kind of quips and barbs that…

At home I use a macbook and an ipad. The ipad is a consumption device- it's great for playing a casual game, looking up a recipe, and better than kindle for reading pdf files. It isn't really usable for programming, writing documentation, or any real work (that I do). It doesn't replace my laptop, it just does some things in a more convenient way.

Microsoft's Surface looks like (for me) it could replace both the ipad and my macbook. It isn't a consumption device- it runs a full operating system. I could remote in to work from anywhere, attach it to a monitor if I wanted to work at home, and easily carry it around. It provides the convenience of a tablet, while allowing real work to be done. It even comes in pretty colors.

Apple wants me to own a phone, a music player, a tablet, and a laptop all to do separate things in separate places. This isn't necessary.

This is not a reversal of Microsoft's position- it's the logical next step.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#642

Post by dsrguru » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 4:49 PM UTC

tmzt wrote: post #449

dsrguru wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the main advantage of the Surface will be Windows 8's ability to be used both as a mobile OS and as a desktop OS. In your case, Android doesn't let you run unported Linux programs and Debian, if you booted into it, wouldn't support touching the screen. If the Linux kernel supported the Transformer Prime's touchscreen, and if a touchable lightweight window manager were designed for mobile use, and if the…

Guys, it needs a lot of work to compile, but I ported X as an android app a couple of years back intended for this use case: github.com/tmzt/androix

Do GTK and Qt work on it? Do desktop environments and window managers compile and run? Does most graphical software that compiles and runs on Linux, the BSDs, and Mac OS X compile and run on it? If so, this would be perfect.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#643

Post by YeeHaw » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 5:05 PM UTC

overgryphon wrote: post #641

roc wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty obvious where that reaction is coming from. As recently as last year Microsoft was singing the praises of being able to kinda-sorta-use desktop software on a tablet and pushing the notion that things without desktop operating systems were 'consumption' devices, at best. So, yes, their sudden reversal on what people want in a tablet is worth noting and easily justifies the same kind of quips and barbs that…

At home I use a macbook and an ipad. The ipad is a consumption device- it's great for playing a casual game, looking up a recipe, and better than kindle for reading pdf files. It isn't really usable for programming, writing documentation, or any real work (that I do). It doesn't replace my laptop, it just does some things in a more convenient way. Microsoft's Surface looks like (for me) it could replace both the ipad…

I completely agree. I would love to be able to ditch the heavy, bulky laptop for a tablet that fit in my purse and still allow me to do real work.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#644

Post by ddt » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 5:06 PM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #511

tylermenezes wrote: post #485

I don't understand the "OMG MICROSOFT MADE A TABLET IT IS CLEARLY COPYING THE IPAD" reaction Microsoft's getting here. They're absolutely ahead of the curve with the blending of mobile and desktop operating systems, something which I am extremely happy they are doing, and this is absolutely the logical design choices someone in that position would make. Yes, it's very similar to the iPad in many ways. But other than…

I'm not sure I'd call it "ahead of the curve". They are on the right track for the most part, but there are key aspects here that are not obvious that I think MS is a little blind to (which is too complex a topic to go into here). Overall though I'd say they are at least partially clueful, which is enormously helpful. I don't think people realize how big this announcement was. Yes, MS is still a multi-billion dollar…

I think you're spot on with the mini-computer to PC transition. This carries all the same echoes of the frontier-days of early PCs. Initially, people (myself included) wrote tablets off as being a toy for enthusiasts, and now they're reaching a level of adoption that's shifted the question from "Why would I buy one?" to "What's the best one on the market?" which can only be good for consumers and computing as a whole. Microsoft ended up winning PC's for a good twenty years, and have gotten destroyed by Apple in terms of branding and attention in the past twelve years or so. We'll see how they do in the teens.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#645

Post by Ecio78 » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 5:07 PM UTC

greedo wrote: post #300

fluidcruft wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly (and I think I represent a certain segment here--the people that really are interested in a tablet but have to deal with Office and other Windows-shackled things) all they need to show is "Hey it's an iPod + Office so you can do your damn work sometimes without always lugging your laptop about". For the people that understand this, that's implied by the Windows logo. The closest I got to settling on an iPod/…

I wonder how large the market is for buyers with this sentiment. I believe that part of the appeal of the iPad (and iOS) is that it's not Windows on a tablet, but instead, a more intuitive computing experience. One of the executives in my company was using Citrix on his iPad. He kept expecting the Citrix app to be, well, more app like. Instead he was stuck using a Windows application published by our Citrix farm on a…

And do you think it makes sense to convert "a lot of our in house applications to iOS" because "one of the executives" hadn't a "good experience"? I hope the investigation will take into account the costs and the benefits (benefits other than making this executive happy with his iPad, i mean)

I'm not criticizing you, this sh*t happens to me every time too... (executives that want toys etc..)

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#646

Post by overgryphon » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 5:09 PM UTC

flyinRyan wrote: post #547

lotharbot wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest takeaway from the announcement was that this was a very Microsoft-like approach to the tablet market, and I mean that in a good way. When I think of an iPad, I think of something that's a natural progression from the iPod and iPhone, running bigger and better versions of the apps you can get from the Apple walled garden. It's a fantastic piece of hardware and a tight ecosystem. Microsoft isn't just trying…

And it was a "bold move" the last 3 or 4 times they've tried it as well. This move just convinces me that MS is a one trick pony.

MS has so many products in so many different markets that I can't help but laugh at calling them a "one trick pony".

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#647

Post by BHSPitMonkey » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 5:11 PM UTC

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #64

bosch wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean how like Apple was so original with an MP3 player?

You mean a compact music player with a 2.5" HDD, room for 5GB of music, with 20 minutes of skip protection, a FireWire port for 50MB per second transfer, a click wheel for navigation, and a user friendly interface? Yes, that was pretty novel in 2002.

The first generations used what's called a touch wheel and buttons. The click wheel wasn't introduced until the 4th generation iPod.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#648

Post by untog » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 5:19 PM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #564

Jacqued wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to yet more reports the HTC One X actually holds this title. In part, due to a level in industrial design that samsung has yet to achieve. Disclosure : I own a One X. I waited for the SIII announcement but the minute I saw the SIII i ordered my One X.

Nope, the S3 is clearly the winner according to most reports.

"many reviews" "more reports" "most reports"

We are better than this, people.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#649

Post by dredmorbius » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 5:23 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #427

jbigelow76 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just "who" is it you think they are trying to rush? Certainly not Apple, and aside from the Fire/Nook Tablet is their an Android tablet that hasn't been dead on arrival (800 dollar Xoom anyone)? If this was vaporware they were pushing in an attempt to get ahead of the market instead of playing catch up they would have put this out in 2010 instead of halfway through 2012. If they can price the thing realistically (aga…

To dissect the frog for you: the "look at teh shinay" with an absence of (or grossly overinflated) specs was the standard MO for Microsoft through much of the 90s. I'm pointing out that such tactics are not particularly effective when there are existing products which have not only captivated the public's eye, but also captured much of the market. Yes, I'm aware that Android are registering 900,000 new activations. P…

Quick reference for those who don't recognize the significance of Microsoft's previous vaporware abuses. And no, again, I'm not saying that "Surface" is same, at least not in the way of being able to torpedo an existing market. But as they say, history may not be repeating, but it's rhyming.

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/claw/Vaporware.htm

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#650

Post by kooshball » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 5:26 PM UTC

roc wrote: post #615

tylermenezes wrote: post #485

I don't understand the "OMG MICROSOFT MADE A TABLET IT IS CLEARLY COPYING THE IPAD" reaction Microsoft's getting here. They're absolutely ahead of the curve with the blending of mobile and desktop operating systems, something which I am extremely happy they are doing, and this is absolutely the logical design choices someone in that position would make. Yes, it's very similar to the iPad in many ways. But other than…

It's pretty obvious where that reaction is coming from. As recently as last year Microsoft was singing the praises of being able to kinda-sorta-use desktop software on a tablet and pushing the notion that things without desktop operating systems were 'consumption' devices, at best. So, yes, their sudden reversal on what people want in a tablet is worth noting and easily justifies the same kind of quips and barbs that…

> People use tablets for what they're great at and desktop PCs for what they're great at. And no-one who's ever put their tablet down to use their laptop is looking at that Microsoft Surface tablet and saying "this will mean I don't have to put the tablet down for these tasks anymore". [4]

I disagree. I see no reason why my mom wouldn't want a single computer to use on a couch for browsing, and on a desk with mouse/keyboard for chatting or photo editing. This seems like an obvious convergence of 2 specialized devices. There are trade offs of course, but if they can deliver a good experience, I think users would be willing to trade the computing power of a desktop for a single all-in-one device.

The next obviously step is to have a phone that can replace all 3, with different docks. And once phone CPU gets powerful enough we will definitely see that.