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What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

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Re: What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

#11

Post by mikewarot »

palata wrote: post #10
jrflowers wrote: post #2

If your threat model is “the most aggressive attackers” then your OS won’t matter much after you’ve been drugged and beaten with a wrench. (This is an xkcd joke from https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/538:_Security )

I don't get why this was downvoted, because it is true. It does suggest that the threat model is not properly defined.

The deep state down voted it because they want to keep their opinions open.

It's the same reason they discourage knowledge of capability based security.

Re: What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

#12

Post by ubedan »

I would also look at Qubes. It basically reinstalls a new desktop vm every time you boot the computer, and allows, but has extra safe guards for using usb, cut-copy-paste, templates, support for tor etc. But it's slow for obvious reasons.

https://www.qubes-os.org/

Re: What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

#13

Post by runjake » 

  > I have also heard that the Windows NT kernel design, although not FOSS, is better than Linux, BSD and OSX because it is based on OpenVMS knowledge.
Former NT kernelspace programming dabbler here. That's very debatable. The NT kernel design is both functional and interesting, but it doesn't really matter in the context of your question, because there's many layers of OS above that with a long history of security vulnerabilities and questionable design.

Re: What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

#14

Post by nicecars »

jrflowers wrote: post #2

If your threat model is “the most aggressive attackers” then your OS won’t matter much after you’ve been drugged and beaten with a wrench. (This is an xkcd joke from https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/538:_Security )

I like it

Re: What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

#15

Post by nicecars »

GianFabien wrote: post #3

Based on my research, I would suggest seL4 microKernel running on ARM-64 hardware with Genode built variant of Linux. AFAIK seL4 is the only formally security verified kernel for specific hardware. See their website for verification status of different hardware configurations. The closest widely used system is Apple OSX which in turn was evolved from CMU Mach. The critical aspect is keeping the smallest possible atta…

Does running Linux on SEL4 only prevent attacks on the hardware or firmware level if Linux is compromised?

Re: What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

#16

Post by nicecars »

bruce511 wrote: post #6

The safest OS is the one you don't run. In other words if you want a perfect OS then don't use a computer. Now I'm guessing you want to use a computer, probably to run programs. So your choice of programs will limit your choice of OS. For example, DOS is likely the most secure (since it contains neither networking or USB support.) But I'm guessing the programs you likely want to run don't work on DOS. A computer disc…

So what if it is simply used for browsing (GUI) only? I'm thinking in this case Kiosk or Chrome.

Re: What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

#17

Post by nicecars »

palata wrote: post #9

> I use the most aggressive attackers as my threat model. Is that what you chose out of interest, or do you actually need it? I will assume the former, because that's how your question sounds. My answer in that case would be: you need to work on your threat model. It is tempting to say "I want the best security, therefore I will define my threat model as 'the most aggressive one'". But that is a fallacy: the best sec…

Sorry for the uninformed question. I asked this question out of interest. The most aggressive attacker is because I recall that there used to be a criterion on Wikipedia (I don't remember which page, but I heard it was cancelled when the criterion could no longer be met) where the NSA or another US government agency had a kernel of resistance for the most aggressive attacker.

Re: What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

#18

Post by nicecars »

runjake wrote: post #13

> I have also heard that the Windows NT kernel design, although not FOSS, is better than Linux, BSD and OSX because it is based on OpenVMS knowledge. Former NT kernelspace programming dabbler here. That's very debatable. The NT kernel design is both functional and interesting, but it doesn't really matter in the context of your question, because there's many layers of OS above that with a long history of security vul…

Is there a structure like the NT kernel(openVMS) (in FOSS) that is more stable and less vulnerable than the NT kernel?

Re: What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

#19

Post by nicecars »

nicecars wrote: post #18
runjake wrote: post #13

> I have also heard that the Windows NT kernel design, although not FOSS, is better than Linux, BSD and OSX because it is based on OpenVMS knowledge. Former NT kernelspace programming dabbler here. That's very debatable. The NT kernel design is both functional and interesting, but it doesn't really matter in the context of your question, because there's many layers of OS above that with a long history of security vul…

Is there a structure like the NT kernel(openVMS) (in FOSS) that is more stable and less vulnerable than the NT kernel?

structure -> kernel

Re: What is the most secure FOSS operating system with Internet access?

#20

Post by chbint »

> Qubes is a good approach to an OS, but it's Xen security, not OS security, and I'd rather run a secure OS other than Fedora or Debian on Qubes.

Not sure what you mean by "Xen security" in contrast with "OS security". Qubes is an OS. Though a lot depends on your threat model, if you have high security needs, Qubes is likely to be your best companion.

Anyway, another reasonable choice is Kicksecure. It's the debian-based OS underlying Whonix (Kicksecure is focused on security and Whonix adds its privacy/anonymity setup on top of it). You can use Kicksecure as a VM within Qubes, by the way.

https://www.kicksecure.com

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