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Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

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Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#591

Post by greedo »

lerouxb wrote: post #569
mtgx wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the iPad, Microsoft was using the "PC interface", to the disadvantage of the tablets they were putting it on. Now they are doing the reverse: making a tablet interface to the disadvantage of the PC. The "all-in-one" interface for all types of devices and form factors will never work, because at best it's optimized only for one of them, and mediocre or poor for most of the others.

They could have so easily gotten around that by just calling it "Metro" and doing a clean break. Then just promise everyone that windows isn't going away and imply that there will/might still be a windows 8 which would be a continuation of windows as we all know it for PCs. Then all the ARM devices (phones, tablets, etc) and also XBOX uses "Metro". Just Metro, no mentions of Windows. If people like it, THEN windows 8…

A clean break would appeal to a lot of people who think that a lack of focus has been part of Microsoft's problems the last few years. But coming out with a tablet only OS was a non-starter for MS. If the Surface was Metro only, then it wouldn't differentiate itself from iOS and Android in any significant manner. This is why Windows Phone 7 isn't getting significant traction.

The key for Surface is the integration with AD, with providing a "desktop" of sorts, and all the other bells and whistles people associate with Windows. Whether the Windows DNA can be successfully combined with a touch based interface is a problem, but at least MS is trying. Muddling along with their old-style tablet software would cede the market to iOS and Android.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#592

Post by steverb »

prezjordan wrote: post #356
steverb wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I was responding to the bit about it crashing when you move the mouse wrong. Complaining about how long VS takes to start up is about as useful as complaining about how long it takes the computer to boot. Neither are part of my daily work flow. I don't shutdown the computer, and I don't generally close VS 2010. Anyway, I was curious and I timed it. I clocked about 12 seconds to completely start VS2010 on a…

A+ for following through, thank you. I wish my experience weren't so sour.

And here I was, all prepared to think bad thoughts in your direction and you have to go and be all reasonable.

What has the internet come to?

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#593

Post by freehunter »

Judson wrote: post #407
kenjackson wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing about Jobs... he was good at saying, "XYZ is a bad idea" right up until the day he announces "we're doing XYZ and it will change the world". Once Apple can get iOS working well on x86, they'll do the same.

From what I understand, the problem with x68 is the lack of processors that can compete with ARM on battery life, which is one of the most important aspects of a portable device.

Intel has and is shipping x86 SoC processors which can compete (perhaps not beat) with ARM power efficiency. [1]

On the flip side, ARM doesn't scale as well as x86 to higher power outputs.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_%28system_on_chip%29

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#594

Post by spiralpolitik »

rbanffy wrote: post #314
jsz0 wrote: post #60

2012 is the year third party OEMs start to go extinct. First (and always) Apple, now Microsoft, soon Google/Motorola. There may be some niche markets left over for third party OEMs but otherwise I think they're done. No wonder HP wanted out of the PC industry. Maybe they knew something we didn't?

> 2012 is the year third party OEMs start to go extinct That's very unlikely for Google and Motorola. Google needs the market fragmented so that Apple doesn't dominate it. In order to maximize it, they need OEMs making slightly incompatible devices so that de jure standards dominate over de facto ones.

Actually I'd say its more likely for Android OEMs. Currently Samsung is the only Android vendor making money, everybody else is barely breaking even or is losing money. At some point basic economics will kick in forcing the vendors to get out of the market while they still can.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#595

Post by inoop »

mtgx wrote: post #512
tylermenezes wrote: post #485

I don't understand the "OMG MICROSOFT MADE A TABLET IT IS CLEARLY COPYING THE IPAD" reaction Microsoft's getting here. They're absolutely ahead of the curve with the blending of mobile and desktop operating systems, something which I am extremely happy they are doing, and this is absolutely the logical design choices someone in that position would make. Yes, it's very similar to the iPad in many ways. But other than…

Before the iPad, Microsoft was using the "PC interface", to the disadvantage of the tablets they were putting it on. Now they are doing the reverse: making a tablet interface to the disadvantage of the PC. The "all-in-one" interface for all types of devices and form factors will never work, because at best it's optimized only for one of them, and mediocre or poor for most of the others.

If I read you correctly, you're basically saying that the desktop and slate/phone should have different user interfaces. Well, that's exactly what win8 delivers.

When you're building a piece of software you can choose to give it a metro-style UI, a classical desktop UI, or both. That way, your application works across desktops, slates, and WP8 phones. IE10 for example can be run as a full-screen metro app, or as a 'classic' desktop application.

The start menu has been replaced by a full-screen view with live tiles. And really, that's all there is to it; it's just a fancy full-screen start menu. You toggle it with the windows key, and you can quickly search for something just by typing. Live tiles are pretty handy to give you a quick overview of mail, world clocks, events, appointments, etc - much like OSX widgets.

These 'surface' slates, as well as desktops and laptops will run Windows 8 (both x86 and ARM varieties). Windows Phone 8 is just another flavor of that. I'm assuming in the near future, phones will even be able to run the desktop environment by docking to an external monitor, keyboard, and mouse.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#596

Post by greedo »

mtgx wrote: post #457
lotharbot wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest takeaway from the announcement was that this was a very Microsoft-like approach to the tablet market, and I mean that in a good way. When I think of an iPad, I think of something that's a natural progression from the iPod and iPhone, running bigger and better versions of the apps you can get from the Apple walled garden. It's a fantastic piece of hardware and a tight ecosystem. Microsoft isn't just trying…

The Ivy Bridge won't offer anywhere near the battery life of an ARM tablet, though. At best it will be half of that.

Nor is it likely to be priced at or under $499.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#597

Post by madoublet »

mtgx wrote: post #512
tylermenezes wrote: post #485

I don't understand the "OMG MICROSOFT MADE A TABLET IT IS CLEARLY COPYING THE IPAD" reaction Microsoft's getting here. They're absolutely ahead of the curve with the blending of mobile and desktop operating systems, something which I am extremely happy they are doing, and this is absolutely the logical design choices someone in that position would make. Yes, it's very similar to the iPad in many ways. But other than…

Before the iPad, Microsoft was using the "PC interface", to the disadvantage of the tablets they were putting it on. Now they are doing the reverse: making a tablet interface to the disadvantage of the PC. The "all-in-one" interface for all types of devices and form factors will never work, because at best it's optimized only for one of them, and mediocre or poor for most of the others.

Have you tried it? From my own personal experience, it works pretty well in the release preview.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#598

Post by madoublet »

inoop wrote: post #595
mtgx wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the iPad, Microsoft was using the "PC interface", to the disadvantage of the tablets they were putting it on. Now they are doing the reverse: making a tablet interface to the disadvantage of the PC. The "all-in-one" interface for all types of devices and form factors will never work, because at best it's optimized only for one of them, and mediocre or poor for most of the others.

If I read you correctly, you're basically saying that the desktop and slate/phone should have different user interfaces. Well, that's exactly what win8 delivers. When you're building a piece of software you can choose to give it a metro-style UI, a classical desktop UI, or both. That way, your application works across desktops, slates, and WP8 phones. IE10 for example can be run as a full-screen metro app, or as a 'c…

This. To me, Windows 8 is the first OS that actually makes sense of how people use tablets (and computers in general). Sometimes, I want to use it casually laying on the couch and sometimes I want to use it to be productive.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#599

Post by greedo »

morsch wrote: post #560
jpadkins wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what windows app exactly will people trade for few hours of battery life? seriously, other than PC games, I don't know a single windows app I want to run on a tablet form factor.

Maybe not, but they designed it so that it's a tablet/ultrabook hybrid. Do your research on the couch in tablet format, then move to the kitchen table to write it up in Microsoft Word. Read and write emails during a bathroom break, then create an insightful business presentation in Microsoft Powerpoint (don't forget to wash your hands)!

So what will happen when you have Word open in "ultrabook"/desktop mode, but then start using the Surface in tablet mode? Is the same instance of Word still open? Is its interface the same? These are the type of things that MS hasn't proven themselves good at designing. MS tends to overcomplicate their UI (Ribbon etc) and in my opinion, a tablet tends to benefit best from focus and simplicity.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#600

Post by coob »

cma wrote: post #391
msbarnett wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.8" HD. All of the other MP3 players on the market until then had been using 2.5", which was why the iPod seemed so much smaller at launch.

My iPaq had a 1.8" HD sleeve, played mp3s, and browed the web (with a different wifi sleeve..). Plus it had a sunlight readable display.

And where is it now?
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