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How to build a 50k ton forging press

construction-physics.com

31–40 of 196 posts

Re: How to build a 50k ton forging press

#31
post #20

> Forgings have the added advantage of variable grain direction which generally can be tailored to the stress patterns of a specific design. This is a super underappreciated fact! It's often repeated that forging is just stronger, but just squishing steel does NOT make it stronger. Forging a part is so much more than just smashing it into a shape. Steel cable is made of pretty ordinary steel which is stretched 100s o…

This effect also applies to polymers! Perhaps even more so. Take a polyethylene bag (LDPE) and stretch the material in one direction. You might notice the material becomes thinner but also stronger. This is due to the polymer chains becoming aligned. Eventually you get "drawn fibers" where the molecular strands are aligned with the fibers for optimum tensile strength.

Re: How to build a 50k ton forging press

#32

They talk about machining, casting, and pressing. Mostly with casting and pressing in a good light, machining not so good. As somebody who knows absolutely nothing about this stuff, I wonder—casting, I thought, was generally a lower quality option (like cast iron doesn’t have fantastic high-performance material qualities, and I had some crappy cast pewter toys as a kid). Are there different, higher quality casting pr…

Which cast iron? There are many different grades/alloys with different properties. Sometimes cast iron (some specific grade) is better sometimes it is worse. And of course you can cast things other than iron, cast steel does exist (rare outside the feed to a press, roll, or some other process, but you can cast steel into a specific shape if you want to). There are trade offs. The topic is so broad we cannot even start to talk about it. Instead we start with what your application needs and then look at the options to get that.

Cast iron is fantastic for building machine out of - while it isn't as strong, it is stable against vibration. There is a reason engine cylinder selves are often cast iron.

> I had some crappy cast pewter toys as a kid

Those were pot metal, not pewter (pester has many definitions but implies some qualty control). They are made out of whatever melts in a pot - often whatever is cheap at the recycle yard (without trying to identify what is in the metal - including lead which shouldn't be used in toys). Typically no control of the alloy was made and often they start with several different things that are great in isolation but when mixed result in bad behavior. Then the next time the make the toy they use different mix and get different properties. If you spend a little extra to get a known alloy pot metal is a high quality castings with great properties.

> I’ve only seen the bargain bin results

You have likely seen a lot of non bargain bin results. However since the parts are invisible you never thought about it or the alloy used. You see the failures and so casting gets a bad reputation because it is obviously used in the cheapest things with low quality control. (the door knobs in your house are likely cast pot metal plated with brass, but they last for decades)

Re: How to build a 50k ton forging press

#33
post #20

> Forgings have the added advantage of variable grain direction which generally can be tailored to the stress patterns of a specific design. This is a super underappreciated fact! It's often repeated that forging is just stronger, but just squishing steel does NOT make it stronger. Forging a part is so much more than just smashing it into a shape. Steel cable is made of pretty ordinary steel which is stretched 100s o…

I wonder if it's possible to do additive manufacturing with pre-elongated snippets of wire.

Re: How to build a 50k ton forging press

#34
post #3

Super interesting: > The largest, the 50,000-ton forging presses, were behemoths: each was the size of a ten-story building, and could exert enough force to lift an entire battleship. The 35,000-ton forging presses weren’t much smaller. and then > Following Germany’s surrender, the U.S. and the Soviet Union divided up its large press capabilities as well as its rocket scientists. The U.S. dismantled four German press…

Well when you have military supply vessels just hanging around in the area…

Re: How to build a 50k ton forging press

#35
post #12

They talk about machining, casting, and pressing. Mostly with casting and pressing in a good light, machining not so good. As somebody who knows absolutely nothing about this stuff, I wonder—casting, I thought, was generally a lower quality option (like cast iron doesn’t have fantastic high-performance material qualities, and I had some crappy cast pewter toys as a kid). Are there different, higher quality casting pr…

> like cast iron doesn’t have fantastic high-performance material qualities Cast iron is a material, not a process. It's an unfortunate legacy term for very high carbon steel (>2% by weight, or The >1% carbon precipitates out into graphite within the steel, causing it to behave totally differently. Less rusting, but weaker and much more brittle when solid. Less viscous when liquid, so you can cast long and thin parts…

> The >1% carbon precipitates out into graphite within the steel, causing it to behave totally differently. Less rusting, but weaker and much more brittle when solid.

If one adds some magnesium or cerium to the alloy, the graphite precipitates out as spherical nodules rather than feathery dendrites. The resulting material, called ductile iron, is much less brittle than traditional cast iron.

An advantage of the higher carbon content is a reduction in the melting point (by > 300 C), so the material is easier to cast than low carbon steel.

Re: How to build a 50k ton forging press

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was curious about what welding technique you meant, looks like it is local electron beam welding https://www.thefabricator.com/thewelder/blog/assembly/sheffi...

I work in an EB shop doing everything from welding, engineering assistance, machine repairs, and complete machine rebuilds. It's quite an impressive process and Ive had parts in my hands that come from some of the biggest names you can think of in aerospace, semiconductor, military, medical and more.

Are they for prototypes? Or how do you service production runs for parts?

If for arguments sake it were a part for an AWACS or an aircraft carrier you might only need to make eight or a dozen. But even military aircraft tend to run into the hundreds.

Re: How to build a 50k ton forging press

#38
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using advanced math I hereby extrapolate that this 50,000 ton press can bend 12,500/8" plate.

well the next time I need some 130ft thick brackets I'll ask them whether I can use it after hours or on the weekend EDIT: or, according to hwillis' math, 2.5ft thick. I guess those could be useful for anchoring a zipline to the moon or something.

I saw a guy weld 1.5 or 2 inch plate once to repair the bucket on a giant bulldozer. That was… interesting. I was trying to figure out why he left such a big gap until he started welding. He had to fit the head in to lay down layer after layer of welding bead to join the pieces at full depth.

How would you weld even one foot of steel?

Re: How to build a 50k ton forging press

#40
post #24
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using advanced math I hereby extrapolate that this 50,000 ton press can bend 12,500/8" plate.

The second moment of area is quadratic with thickness (t^2), so 250/8" plate. But in reality 2-3x more than that, because at that scale steel gets a bit... goopy.

I understand very little about machining, expect that _all_ materials are kinda squishy if one applies enough squish.
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